SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Here you're just talking here with our guests, just yeah, back and forth. That's the way it is here at Hold My Cutter, coming your way at uh burned by Rocky Patel, a few blocks down from PNC Park. Michael McHenry has selected. Tell me about this one. Our our Stogie, this episode is the 15th anniversary. You're number 15. Aha, his original big league uniform number. Number 15. Right. But number one today for us, Kevin Ory, the uh the longtime Pittsburger, Pittsburgh, not a Pittsburgh native, but a former big league player and uh and and did some broadcast work. Oh yeah, he leaves a Pittsburgh native now, I guess. Never left. Never left. Well, where were you born and raised?

SPEAKER_02: 0:44

Uh I was actually born in Westchester, Philadelphia. All right. But I was raised here. I was here since kindergarten. Wow. So Pittsburgh's home always has been. Did your yeah, your parents' work get you to the uh Western PA? Yes. Yeah. My dad was in the steel business, so okay. You know how that goes. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02

Uh how about number 15? Kevin Ory made his big league debut as a Chicago Cub. And we love talking about these stories. You have a similar story to uh one of our broadcast colleagues, John Wayner, Pittsburgh guy, Indiana University. That's right. But drafted, he was drafted by the Pirates. You're a first-round pick of the Cubs. Whoops. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, we'll get into that. It's a great, it's a great story. But uh now Wayner was drafted before you, I guess, right? Yeah. How many years?

SPEAKER_02: 1:38

In fact, I never met him. I was gonna ask you that. Never met him until I got traded to the Marlins in '98 at the deadline over with Leland.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51

And um it's a good time to be a Marlin, man.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54

And we went to we both went to 97 was a good time to be a Marlin.

SPEAKER_03: 1:57

97. 98, not so much. It went not so much. But but was Wayner with the Marlins in '98 also? He was. Oh, he okay. So you were a teammate of John's.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06

Uh-huh. So that's where I met him. Okay. He got shipped over there and showed up one afternoon and said, you know, four four o'clock game. And I was in the starting lineup that day, and I look at John or Rock, and he's like, Where are you staying? I go, I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03: 2:22

And he goes, Stay with me. I said, Cool. No kidding. That was it. Did you tell him uh that you idolized him as a former IUP guy who's your bring up, right? And of course, we told we don't know how many guys we've talked, because this is unbelievable how many guys we've talked to on the Hold My Cutter podcast who spent time in the big big leagues and from Pittsburgh. But Wayner, you know Judge John, Kevin's good buddies with John. Judge John has declared that if you are from Upper St. Clair, Mount Levin, anyway, that does not count, you're not a true Yinzer. So he does not count you as a true Judge. Oh no, no, he doesn't. No, we still go back and still have that power. Because he's a carrot guy. So he's a he's a he's he's a city guy.

SPEAKER_00: 3:07

Taking ground balls with rocks on the field. Hell yeah. Hey, we did that at St.

SPEAKER_02: 3:11

Clair.

SPEAKER_03: 3:12

We did. Uh John were here, he would say no chip, no turf.

SPEAKER_00: 3:15

That sounds like a Yinzer.

SPEAKER_03: 3:17

I don't believe it. Right? I'm I'm gonna play Wayner here. I don't believe it.

SPEAKER_02: 3:20

We did we it was our infields were terrible. Really? Terrible. I figured if you could kick at Bakerfield, where we used to play our high school games, if you could feel in the sun would always set right. Oh, right behind you, too? Right from I was it's short, right over the pitcher's head, that sun would come down. You couldn't see anything. I mean, I almost played in the grass, and there were rocks. I just I would spend the whole time just kicking rocks out. So getting through that and then going to uh IU, as you mentioned, yeah, with it was grass, but just picture perfect. After every practice, our coach would make us pick up rocks. The whole team was down green up rocks and throwing them any little thing. We had like this brick dust, and any little rock bigger than say a pea.

SPEAKER_00: 4:09

So that's what we were on your hands and knees?

SPEAKER_02: 4:11

Yep. That was our IU experience. That's why John and I left early. He knows what he's doing. But no, yeah, I idolize John. I do. It's for a story for another time, but that's my guy. That's my man. I wouldn't mess with him. There's one guy I would not mess with.

SPEAKER_03: 4:33

Oh to this day, nobody wants to mess with him. Don't mess with him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:39

It's the truth. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 4:40

He he claims he that you can't get under his skin, by the way. I don't know. It takes a while. It does, but if you're if you dedicate yourself to it, yeah, yeah. Borderline get yourself killed.

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

Okay, what would that take? Like you've obviously done it because you smiled really big and said, You can.

SPEAKER_03: 4:58

Yeah.

unknown: 4:59

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03: 5:00

I tested the theory early on in our broadcasting careers. We were on a at a bar, I think, in Denver. Bob Walk will remember this because he was there, the the four of us. And I said to Bob beforehand, I said, I'm gonna get him steaming. He can't get under his skin in about five minutes. I think it was over I think it was a bonds argument. Um I think that's the best way if you just get in a yeah, an argument.

SPEAKER_02: 5:24

Because I'm you know I was anti-bonds. It's not a fight, but it's it's how it is. I mean maybe Kerriff had to work with him a lot more than I have. I mean, we we lived in the same we lived in uh Larry Rothschild's place in in Fort Lauderdale in 98. Where had he gone? I think he where did he go at that point? Maybe the former manager is yeah, he was uh yeah, he had a place there and he held onto it and then rented out to us.

SPEAKER_03: 5:49

Now, when you by the way, you when you first went to the Marlins, wasn't John Bowles the manager or not? Leland. Leland and then Bowles. Skipper was there and then Bowles came in the next year. Okay, that's when it got really fun. Okay. He says tongue in cheek, right? Not much fun. Um, just preaching the facts. That's okay. Oh, that's that's what hold my cutter is all about.

SPEAKER_02: 6:10

You hear things it's no fun when you're in the big leagues and it doesn't feel like you're in the big leagues. Explain explain that a little bit more. That's how I felt.

SPEAKER_00: 6:17

Because I I definitely know what you mean, but like for that average fan, explain that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: 6:23

And like, and as you mentioned, '97, when they won the World Series, I mean, that's a big deal. Yeah. And Skipper can talk more about that. And we had a talented team, like a lot of guys you've heard of, a lot of guys that are managing in the big leagues now. That um, not that that makes you a great player, but yeah. We had some talented, some talented players when we were younger.

SPEAKER_03: 6:42

Um I don't want to get you off track, but I want to I don't want to forget that. A lot of guys are managing in the big leagues now that are on that team. Some are, yeah. Well, council being one of them. Oh, council, of course.

SPEAKER_02: 6:51

Uh Mike Redman was another. Redman managed, he did manage, yeah. Uh a lot is a big word. Um I mean, two's a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 6:59

But there's 30 jobs.

SPEAKER_02: 7:00

Yeah, well that's true. Um anyway, I'll think I gotta go and look. I'll look it up. I'll see like the full staff now. Okay, go ahead, staff it changes every year. I guess I didn't want to get you off track.

SPEAKER_00: 7:10

It's a it's a washing machine.

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Yeah. Um, Cliffy Floyd, he's on MLB Network. Cliff Floyd, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 7:17

Might as well be a manager figure out the MLB Network, yeah. But they act like they're managers.

SPEAKER_02: 7:21

It was just different. You know, Skipper and John and Kanji were there, Cangielosi, at least for that that short amount of time, and then it just became a complete rebuild, and it was all the Marlins. It was the Marlins staff the minor league staffs, minor league coordinators, and which was great.

SPEAKER_00: 7:38

Everybody needs an opportunity, but but they were probably trying to justify their job a little bit.

SPEAKER_02: 7:45

Yeah, it wasn't. I just I didn't think it was handled well. I don't think they handled players well well enough and it and it showed.

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

I think that's 99% of being a big league manager.

SPEAKER_02: 7:57

And didn't have I I don't think didn't certainly didn't have the experience, but didn't have the audacity to be able to tell you like they're supposed to tell you when they're in that position. And that's important, right? As you think that's very important, especially well it always part why you felt like it was the minor leagues because players just I was just like clearly this isn't the right fit. So what like what are we doing?

SPEAKER_03: 8:20

But Katsei, Mark Katsei. Kate, big league manager, yeah. And uh and Moise Salou is uh like it was a GM, I think, for uh some of America, right? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. So mainly Katsey and uh and council who I was thinking about. Uh all right, back to so back to uh uh St. Clair. Yeah, you know you're you're gonna get drafted. You're really one of the best players, certainly in the state. And uh what was draft day like? Draft Day was Did you have any inkling it might be the Cubs?

SPEAKER_02: 8:53

I did, yeah, because short that and I want to say like a week or two before the draft, I might be wrong, they had me go out for like a private workout. Oh yeah. Where'd you go? So they were trying to figure out where they were going to, clearly where they were going to draft me if they did. Where'd you go? What was the progress? Went to Wrigley. Went to Wrigley.

SPEAKER_00: 9:13

We went to Wrigley. What was the workout like? Like what all'd you do? Just run, throw, hit, pretty simple.

SPEAKER_02: 9:18

Ground balls, you know, deep in the hole, trying to show your arm strength, and then um uh ran the bases. In fact, the first time we were just taking BP, and I thought I heard somebody say, you know, after your last swing, you know, go, go, touch them all. So I I took off. And it was probably the best thing I did because they were like, we didn't know he could run around the bases like that. I had these big sizes. That's not what they had said, but you had these size quick.

SPEAKER_03: 9:43

What's he doing? I know. Show off. It was kind of both.

SPEAKER_02: 9:46

And I and I was just going like a maniac.

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

So they thought you had skis on your feet, and all of a sudden you're running.

SPEAKER_02: 9:51

So I had size 15 ponies, bright red ponies. Ponies, and they were skis ponies. Oh no, man. And I couldn't wear the flip over to you. I couldn't wear the IU version because they didn't have a size that fit me. It was like high school basketball. I couldn't wear the team shoes. I had to get separate. Wow. And that was only 13. So I did that, and then I, you know, slid in and they were like laughing. I'm like, what you slid in too? That's even I got dirty for no reason.

SPEAKER_01: 10:16

Just getting after it, though. Yeah, that's great. But I I had a good workout.

SPEAKER_02: 10:20

I did. I hit I hit well, I was hitting line drives, then you know, I put a few you know out of the ball out of the ballpark, and I felt good about it, but that made a big difference. And then suddenly I didn't know, I didn't go into the the draft assuming I was gonna be a first-round pick. Not at all.

SPEAKER_00: 10:36

And were you still a shortstop at the time?

SPEAKER_02: 10:38

In fact, I I was still shortstop, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:42

You're probably like you looked like a mammoth at shortstop up there.

SPEAKER_02: 10:45

Yeah, it was. I I had a when I went to IU, I had a Wilson A2000 that my dad bought. And I'm one of nine kids, so take the upper St. Clair out of the equation, right?

SPEAKER_00: 10:55

He's a Yenzer.

SPEAKER_02: 10:56

He's a Yenzer.

SPEAKER_00: 10:57

Take up rocks off his hands and knees. This guy's a Yenzer.

SPEAKER_02: 11:01

John makes fun of me, Wayner, but take the upper out of the equation. Yep. There were nine of us, I had one glove, and I knew I wasn't going to get another one. So you took care of that thing. I I oh yeah. I I that was my little league glove, and then I wore it, I took it to college and played shortstop with it with an A2,000 outfielders glove. What? And finally, this the the Which looked like an infielder's glove on his hand.

SPEAKER_00: 11:22

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:23

The assistant coach came out and said, You can't play with it. I was like, What do you mean? What do you mean I can't? Well, I could use these, yeah, yeah. Like, I need a glove. And he gave me a uh a small little infielder's glove. It was like I think it was like 11 and a quarter, and it was like it was this so tiny. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

It had to feel tiny after you have a 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_02: 11:46

I wanted to like play with this, yeah. I mean, if it was if there was a transfer portal back then, you're gone. Yeah. I thought about it. But it actually was the best thing. Obviously, it was the best thing I what was it like initially playing with it, though?

SPEAKER_03: 12:00

You get it. That's fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:02

Oh, I I loved it. But yeah, I mean, you know, you have that deep pocket. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like a catcher. You have a catching everything on the web.

SPEAKER_00: 12:08

You but how fast you were probably transitioning the ball out your class, and our practices were were insane.

SPEAKER_02: 12:13

Our coach was an ex-marine. Oh my gosh. So, and and Rock can tell you about it. It our practices were insane. So you were, I mean, every little bit you were backhanding in the hole, and then you had to go turn two. I mean, you were exposed with it. So uh, but yeah, it worked out.

SPEAKER_00: 12:29

Were there any time restrictions then? Like now they have the 20 hours. Well, who knows now? They change the rules every four minutes in CAA. But back then, did they even have that or did they even care?

SPEAKER_02: 12:40

As far as the practice, yeah, how long? Yeah. Because you you talk about that. I don't think because our practices were right at close to three hours, two and a half, three, like structured from the very beginning. From warmups, if you airmailed one, that was one lap. Everybody, boom, wow 30-second lap around the indoor track. You know, those 30-second laps and the modified tracks. Oh, I know exactly. They're exhausting. Yeah, so sometimes we did seven or eight of those before we even started practice. Jeez, so you had guys like wanting to kill each other. Oh my god. And no legs, it was thing ground balls. No legs. Oh, and throwing yikes. Yeah. So, you know, you get arm, yeah, arm hurt. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:21

I'll never forget, and maybe you can test to this. My my freshman year in college, nobody got me ready for how much I had to throw. I feel like my arm was gonna fall off. I genuinely thought my arm it had its own pulse, and I was like, this thing's gone.

SPEAKER_02: 13:36

Oh my god. No, I'm uh yeah, we didn't we did stuff in the backyard, but we didn't do we had no AAU, we had never had, God forbid, a baseball instruction, let alone any instruction. But so we did all the throw in the backyard, but wiffle balls aren't good for your arm. And there was just there was no comparison. Yeah, I was practiced to the training room and just getting that elbow worked on, just try to get through.

SPEAKER_03: 13:59

By the way, out of high school, was it always IUP or there other options? Uh look at them messing with me. IUP. I mean, and I I I always do that. I know, I know. That's an inside joke on our on our telecast with guys when I got drafted.

SPEAKER_02: 14:14

The day I got drafted, we so back to the draft question. The day I got drafted. Was IUP an option, Kevin? It was not. It was not. Not saying anything against IUP, it just it wasn't. I was going to play basketball at St. Vincent. I didn't know that. I had signed to play hoops. What? I had signed to play hoops at St. Vincent. Was that your first love? Yeah.

unknown: 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 14:34

That was my first scholarship, and I was like, okay. Because I'm I'm young for my grade, so I didn't have any real interest until my senior year. So like by today's standards, who knows what would have happened. But so after you spowed up, like what had no, I just didn't play a whole lot my junior year in any sport. So son of a gun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:56

That to a first round is kind of remarkable.

SPEAKER_03: 14:59

Yeah, I mean, it was hoops at St. Vincent's.

SPEAKER_02: 15:03

Yeah, so I'd signed to do that, and then uh, and then I thought I was gonna go to Wake Forest to play basketball and baseball. Oh. So I met with a basketball coach, and he was great. He was open to it. So I was like, this could be the reason I'll go. And then they called me that night and said, wait, hold on, we have to put you in front of the board one more time to make sure we can get you in to the school. And then that morning, IU called, and then I ended up, you know, I didn't know until barely 17, 16, and I just kind of looked at my dad, and he's kind of looking at me like you have no option. You have no choice, you gotta do it. You got a scholarship there or there. Like, I was like, I'm just gonna follow the money.

SPEAKER_03: 15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:45

So I okayed IU, which honestly, that back then I didn't know. I was like, I didn't really want to go there. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00: 15:52

And then um no visit, no anything.

SPEAKER_02: 15:54

You're just I did it, I did have a visit. Uh-huh. I did have a visit, but and then um Wake Forest ended up following back up and said, Hey, all right, it's all good. And I was like, Oh boy, now what? No, I'm not going. So that ended my loyal.

SPEAKER_00: 16:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:10

Oh yeah. Yeah, that ended my uh basketball career. But I would have loved to at least try to walk on it.

SPEAKER_03: 16:16

Yeah, I you um so then so you play at at IU, and the the draft comes along, yeah. By the way, the Cubs had I think three first round picks that year.

SPEAKER_00: 16:30

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_03: 16:31

Three first round picks with compensation. You were you were 29th overall in the draft. Yeah, we did. Right, right. Um who was the first one? Keshnick, who was a two-way player, right? 15th. He was he was 10th. 10th. Kishnick was 10th. John Ratliff. Yes, a pitcher. John Ratliff was 24th. Yep. Yeah. But how about some of the other guys? You you you certainly know who the number one pick overall that year was. Uh, was that? I should, shouldn't I? Oh my gosh. Was it an A-rod? Yes, yeah. A-Rod, A-Rod. Number one.

SPEAKER_00: 17:01

Who's that?

SPEAKER_03: 17:01

Yeah, I know. Not sure. Darren Dreyfert went second. Brian Anderson, Wayne Gomes, Jeff Granger, who spent a little bit of time with the Pirates, Steve Soderstrom, Trott Nixon. Uh Billy Wagner, was who's going to the Hall of Fame, was 12th overall by the Astros that year. Derek Lee became a Padre, was four teammate, became a cub. He was with Marlon Padres.

SPEAKER_00: 17:23

Oh, that's right. He was a teammate of mine. Really?

SPEAKER_01: 17:25

That's right here. Dealy, yeah. He was awesome. Dealy was great. He's he's he's the best. Holy talent. Oh, well, what an athlete, right?

SPEAKER_00: 17:33

Like, I don't think people understand how good he was. No.

SPEAKER_02: 17:35

Who's the best first baseman? You know, you play with Mark Grace, and no offense to Gracie. I mean, hands down is not even a big thing. This dude played hoops at North Carolina. And he was smooth as silk at first. I mean, you could throw anything, and he was just you remember his first game as a pirate?

SPEAKER_03: 17:52

I remember how good he was, but I don't remember his first game.

SPEAKER_00: 17:55

So he takes his four days after the trade deadline. Oh, yeah. Most guys don't, right? He gets here. He's a few.

SPEAKER_03: 18:01

I wasn't a big fan of that, by the way.

SPEAKER_00: 18:02

Well, I I analyze D. Lee. So like I watched the phone.

SPEAKER_03: 18:05

I'm not like Derek Lee, and I'm the but that was kind of ridiculous. Yeah, it was. But he walked in. Four days. It's Penetrate.

SPEAKER_00: 18:10

Took some flippies.

SPEAKER_03: 18:11

Ooh, penetrate.

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_02: 18:14

He's my guy. Yeah. And again, I like him.

SPEAKER_00: 18:17

He's going to laugh because he knows what's coming. He took a couple flippies, comes out, hits the foul pole, and then goes alpha taco next bat. First two bats, hits two homers. He wins the game by himself. First game there. So he could take four or five days off. He won the first couple games by himself in a pirate uniform.

SPEAKER_03: 18:32

If he gets there day one, they might win the division or go back to the game.

SPEAKER_00: 18:34

Probably you're going to fall off no matter what.

SPEAKER_03: 18:36

Oh, okay. There you go. So anyway, I love nice to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 18:41

Watch it. But it is like I mean, you know how mental this game is. But coming off the bench or or being injured and then coming back in and saying, like, I don't want to go on a rehab assignment or something, and then coming back. I mean, if you're all right here, it's doable.

SPEAKER_00: 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:55

It really is doable. It is.

SPEAKER_00: 18:56

And this guy was right there all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 18:58

D Lee. D. Lee, yeah. He yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:01

It was slow for him for the call time.

SPEAKER_02: 19:03

Slow heartbeat. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:05

He's he's yeah, yeah. He's just he's too he's just too cool.

SPEAKER_00: 19:09

He is too cool to go ahead and put yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:11

Now, how about you get when the draft day comes along, how you found out it was the Cubs?

SPEAKER_02: 19:17

Yeah, for were you? I was in my room. I actually went upstairs and hid in my bedroom because it it was just Didn't want to be around anybody too nerve wracked. And there was activity, and people were stopping by the house. So I went up and said I was gonna take a nap. And you there's no way you're gonna take a nap. I've never taken a nap until I would turn 48.

SPEAKER_03: 19:40

Honest to God, ever. Somebody in the audience, uh there's so many out there, I don't even know which I don't know who you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02: 19:52

So um yeah, it finally got the call, and then uh I you know played it down, and and then bit by bit over the the evening as word spread, it became a party. But there was no way I was planning a party in advance of my yeah, it just wasn't gonna happen. And it ended up being an amazing time. And at the end of the night, we had just people gradually show up and you know, throughout the night, and then my friends, and then it was about maybe 9 45, and everybody was ready to go and go somewhere else. And I remember like like got my little shirt on, sort of heading out the door, and my dad gave me the you know Oh, you're gonna head out with everybody.

SPEAKER_03: 20:34

Oh, yeah, it's gonna be a night out. I got the dad said no, you're I got the horse calling. No, sir.

SPEAKER_01: 20:40

And I I get it. Yeah, it's a good dad, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:41

Yeah, it's the right move. Smart move. So I didn't I didn't make it out for the the after party, but it it was a it was an unbelievable night. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03: 20:50

Where'd you report then?

SPEAKER_02: 20:51

When when? I went right to uh Peoria. So I went to was that uh I don't know what late that was on table. Yeah, and uh that was 96. I believe it was, and then after that, yeah, I went and it was close to school to IU. So and then after that season, I drove back to IU.

SPEAKER_03: 21:12

Yeah, so it was good. That was 93, 94 then. 94.

SPEAKER_00: 21:19

You're saying you went back to school? Did you actually go take classes? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:22

And it was nice without baseball. I mean, get that off your mind. By far. By far. But yeah, in the 94 I went to uh the next step up, which was Daytona, a high A team. Okay, and 95 you start where. And then I got hurt like a week, I got hurt man, it may have been a week into the season. I I tore uh cartilage in my wrist. How'd you do it how'd you do it? Uh sliding. Jeez, uh put the hand down, and then I tried to stay and work through it and started doing all these one handed drills with a with. With the good arm? Again, Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_00: 22:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 22:03

And then I shred I shredded this wrist doing that. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00: 22:07

So a lot a lot of guys in in your era seem to shred their wrist or their elbow doing one-inch stuff. Huh. Were you guys just using logs? Just or maybe they it was the half bat.

SPEAKER_02: 22:19

I was using the half bat. But no, but you're right though. Uh initially, I remember until I got a smaller one after I got hurt. I think the team gave me one, or the club gave me one. I was using a you know, a 32-ounce and trying to choke up on it. It's not good. And I mean, my I'm not a risk tiny, yeah, but it's not good. Yeah. Well, how long are you out then? Uh that season, and then I came back in '95 and and started in Daytona again. Uh was still kind of hurt, but uh ended up finishing strong, and then we won that league. And then I went to double-A that next year, '96, then went to the Arizona Fall League and did really well in the Arizona Fall League. Moved to did I move to third? Yeah, I moved to third basically.

SPEAKER_03: 23:09

Wait, so you're still at short the first three years. First couple years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:12

And then they asked me if I wanted to switch.

SPEAKER_03: 23:15

And I said, Okay, what was going on in why? What was going on in Chicago that they knew they needed you at third? Do you remember? Because that that I want to ask you about the the carousel of third baseman and the cups. There was the opportunity. There was the black hole that was the cup third base position.

SPEAKER_02: 23:32

Yeah, and they asked you.

SPEAKER_00: 23:32

Well, they probably used your size against you, didn't they? It seemed like they're always kind of nagging the bigger shortstop. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:40

I mean, we I even had it was cool. I had some baseball cards out of it, at least that you know, Cal Ripkin, we had split comp the split card. Oh, wow, which was cool.

SPEAKER_00: 23:48

Wow. Because you probably idolized him as a shortstop.

SPEAKER_02: 23:52

Yeah, him and Ozzie Smith.

SPEAKER_00: 23:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_02: 23:54

And uh, you know, obviously the pirate guys with Bonds and Vanilla, Vance Like, Big Daddy, Russell?

SPEAKER_04: 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:02

Rick. Do you remember uh Steve Glass?

SPEAKER_03: 24:05

Of course. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:05

Yeah. Bob Walkie. Go on and on. Yeah. Walkie. Yeah. I mean, those that's who I grew up watching.

SPEAKER_03: 24:10

And uh Steve was a little earlier, but um, yeah, it was it's crazy how it all did you go to any uh any uh the postseason games in uh 90, 91, 92? No, but before we get to oh backtracking now, back to your fandom days. Did I go to Three River Stadium? Didn't I? Did you go to a lot of games over the years?

SPEAKER_00: 24:32

If you have nine kids, yeah, would you have to buy nine tickets? Yeah, well, it wasn't happening. Yeah, it was never happening.

SPEAKER_02: 24:37

We belonged to Valley Brook Country Club. Your new hood. My new hood. And yeah, not a hood, but nice place. Yeah. Um we belong there because my dad's steel company was Jessup Steel, which was out in Washington. Used to be out Washington PA. That's when this the company could pay for it, right? So we belong there, but we brought we smuggled peanut butter and jellies into the pool. There come smoothies or Uber Eats. No.

SPEAKER_03: 25:05

What's the breakdown of boy girls that have played golf? And the family, by the way. What's the breakdown of boy girls? Six boys, three girls. Oh man. Wow, wow. We're in the pecking order, by the way.

SPEAKER_02: 25:15

Yeah, we did. We did. We had it in the back, we had Minnie Wrigley in the backyard. Unbelievable. We had a football field that was like 60 yards. We had goalposts we made out of bamboo. We had a full hockey rink in the basement with mattresses in the corner for like full checking. We had airplane seats for the sky boxes that were elevated.

SPEAKER_00: 25:32

Yeah, it was good. I think I was supposed to grow up with you. Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03: 25:37

Well, when you have a family like that, with bullsh we were I'm six and one, six boys, one girl. And she was the youngest of seven kids. So it's the same thing. We just drank. I mean, imagine her bringing a date. Oh, yeah. No, no, he didn't. She didn't even bother. Yeah. She knew no chance. Yeah. But where are you in the pecking order? Seven. So I have a younger brother and a younger son. Um, so uh back to so you don't remember any particular games growing up as a kid, pirate games then. You're generally a fan. I mean, I remember the games.

SPEAKER_02: 26:07

We didn't, I didn't attend any of the uh I mean one that really stands out really wasn't as a kid, was when we were at uh it was Sid Breen. The Sid Breed game. We were at IU or IUP, whatever you want.

SPEAKER_00: 26:18

Yeah, well and IU minus a P, is what we're gonna say.

SPEAKER_02: 26:21

And they yeah, that game was that was a that was a rough night. I mean, we had people just Sid Breaming us. I mean, it was it was you know what the Sid Breen game is?

SPEAKER_03: 26:31

I do Barry Bond, Sid Bream, and yeah, and um 1992.

SPEAKER_02: 26:35

So that was that was probably honestly that was probably the most memorable game.

SPEAKER_03: 26:41

Uh yeah, well he was the catcher, yeah. Game seven in Atlanta. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 26:46

Uh but yeah, the Bill Madlock days. I mean, those were the those were the days. Um Bonz Bonilla, the Cobra. Yeah, I mean, I it's it's hard. I don't know. You I mean, how many times have people asked you all of us? Name name uh who's your favorite player? Yeah. That's a tough one. Yeah, I that's like your favorite song now. Oh, that's true. That's a real challenge. You mentioned some of them. Yeah, I just wondered if there's something about it. All those guys, it's really hard for me to pick one. Um, but yeah, the memories were great. And I and I was just with uh oh my gosh. We were at an event here, an alumni thing, you weren't there. I wasn't invited, and uh the candyman. Oh yeah, John Candelari.

SPEAKER_00: 27:31

Man, he can tell a story.

SPEAKER_02: 27:33

He's the best. He he he shows up, he drives in from Charlotte, comes to all these, you know, just it might be a little dinner, a little, like a little board meeting, and we'll we'll go over the usually we have it in the stadium, uh, but now we'll start having it at the North Shore, the tavern with the stake on the store. And I was telling him a story we had a a drink after, John me, Rock, oh my gosh, and Canji, which was cool. Yeah, Candy, not Cangielosi. Um, and he was just telling, I told him a story about being in a skybox of one of the games when I was younger. Again, my dad's company, he got you know, one of the games. So we'd get a couple games a year, and that those are the games I'd go to. And in the middle of the game, Candy walked into the skybox. I'm like, you know, it's like, I don't know, I'm like zero years old with big hair everywhere. I'm like, I'm sitting there eating like cheese and carrots. I look up and here comes this massive, and I'm like, what's the candy man doing here? And it was just me. And he goes, What? What's up, kid? I'm like, How you doing? And he he grabbed some of the uh we had the little antipasta or whatever the heck was in front of the stuff that I didn't eat. He grabbed a slice of I thought I remembered. I want to say it was like Capacola, and then gave me a little tap on the shoulder and he walked out. So I told him that story. Not that he was gonna remember, I was like, it was the middle of the game. He doesn't remember walking into one of the suites during a game, he doesn't remember that.

SPEAKER_00: 29:02

Oh, I heard he was a wonder. Oh, he was heard some stories.

SPEAKER_02: 29:04

He was he's an interesting cat. Yeah, yeah, but but it was it was pretty cool. And it and for me, like growing up here and doing some stuff for the Pirates, you know, through the fan and being a part of the alumni, even though I never played for the Pirates, which was I was close, but it doesn't count. It's pretty cool. I mean, these are the people I played in Three Rivers, I played over here at PNC, and now hanging with this, I mean, this alumni group, these guys are some of the coolest guys. It's it's an incredible unbelievable guys.

SPEAKER_03: 29:34

Unbelievable. Gotta say, Candelaria, you know, Candelaria was. It's funny how time heals all wounds. It's it's really remarkable to have been around as long as I have through this organization and to watch guys like Dave Parker get a second chance. Dave Parker was run out of town. Pirates sued him. I mean, what? Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. It was a horrible time. Persona non grata. He was public enemy number one. They didn't want anything to do with them in this town. And and but it's great. It's such a great redemption story, so beloved now. Now a pirate hall of famer, and now going into the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. Candelaria, similar, Candelaria publicly berated the organization. Things were a complete mess. And uh he called the general manager, publicly, he said Pete Peterson was a bozo. He called him Bozo the clown. Probably trying to get run out of trying to get run out of town, but it works. He finally got traded. Uh they traded our guy. He's a smart guy.

SPEAKER_02: 30:31

Not about the common. I don't know. No, no, he didn't know. I don't know Peterson, but he's a smart guy. There's a lot of depth that works out. A lot of layers to candy. Tons. And he's a lot smarter than I think people know. 100%. Oh my gosh. Or, you know, I don't know. What the what the well he was playing a game.

SPEAKER_00: 30:48

He wanted to win. And he wasn't afraid to do what he had to do.

SPEAKER_03: 30:52

He's had a lot of tragedy in his life. He's had a lot of things. You know, his when his child drowned in the swimming pool as a young as an infant. Um horrible. I mean, in his own swimming pool. Uh just many things. The drug trials, all the stuff that went on, a lot of facets to him. But and and so I I I appreciate his life story. But what really uh garnered a lot of respect from me with him was a few years ago with an old third base coach, you'll remember the name, Joe Lynette.

SPEAKER_01: 31:20

Sure.

SPEAKER_03: 31:20

Joe Lynette was a longtime pirate uh third base coach back in the heyday, 79 World Series team, and many years after that with Chuck Tanner. And Joe Lynette passed away uh again several years ago, had a funeral at a Catholic church in like Beaver Falls, where he was from. Not many people there. I was there with a couple of old front office people. In the back of the church, I swear I see John Candelarian. I know he's retired down to North Carolina.

SPEAKER_04: 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 31:47

And after everybody lets out of the church, he starts walking away. I go, Candy, what's going on? I go, what are you doing? He goes, I'm heading back. Where? Home. I said, what do you mean home? He goes, I drove up. You drove up for Joe Lynette's funeral. He drove up from North Carolina that morning and was driving back with no fanfare whatsoever. Nobody even knew he was there. But I mean, talk about respect, you know, for a guy like that. Anyhow, getting off the beaten track. But he's like, he still doesn't.

SPEAKER_02: 32:15

It's like 10:30 like that. What do you mean you're where you're where are you going? Yeah. Yeah, back to Charlotte.

SPEAKER_03: 32:20

Incredible.

SPEAKER_02: 32:21

What?

SPEAKER_03: 32:21

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he just goes. So back to so back to your bouncing around a little bit. Your major league debut was uh April 1st, I believe, 1997. You had an unbelievable year at AAA in 1996. We love the OPS. 883 OPS. The previous year.

SPEAKER_02: 32:41

I mean, you were killing it. Yeah, that was double. Well, I was double A. And then I um What was the AAA club then? No, I well, I was in double A, and then I got called up, and I went to AAA and got taken out at first base and separated my shoulder. By Casey Witten.

SPEAKER_03: 33:01

Oh no kidding.

SPEAKER_02: 33:03

Yeah. Jerk. When? What what time it was just an errant throw? First baseman came off, and he came into the line right in my big my last stride of the base. What time of year? Separated my shoulder. Uh it was right before September call-up. Oh my gosh. So I didn't get the call-up in 96. Then I went to the fall league and then uh did well there.

SPEAKER_00: 33:23

And then uh that's almost like a guarantee. Then I made the call up.

SPEAKER_02: 33:26

Made the team out of spring training. Okay. So yeah. So that would have been the probably double F.

SPEAKER_03: 33:32

How about pressure on a guy like Kevin Ory? Talk about the pressure because you're the first we talked about the the carousel. You're the first homegrown third baseman since Ron Santo was traded in 1973. We talked about 12 different starters at that position over a 24-year span. Going back to Bill Madlock, Steve Ontiveras, Lenny Randall, Ken Reitz, Ryan Sandberg in 1982, played third base a little bit. Ron Say, Keith Moreland, Vance Law, Luis Salazar, Steve Bouchel, Todd Zeal, Leo Gomez. Finally, here comes the guy. Here comes Kevin Ory, the homegrown guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:12

Had to be a ton of what, three years as a third baseman going into that? Is that about right?

SPEAKER_02: 34:17

You'd switch from my minor league time was brief. Very brief. Because you said you made that transition.

SPEAKER_01: 34:25

I made that transition. Second year high end? Yeah. Yeah. Second-year high end.

SPEAKER_00: 34:30

Two years in the minor leagues. That's crazy. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 34:32

And got hurt that a couple times.

SPEAKER_02: 34:36

But yeah, like by today's standards, I mean, I I know the Pirates started to do things differently years ago with as far as not rushing anybody. I mean, it's never a bad idea not to rush a young player.

SPEAKER_03: 34:50

If your teams are good enough, you can do it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 34:52

You can hold guys down. You got a good team of the big leagues, but when your fans are clamoring for a winner and let's see your talent, it's hard not to get caught up in that.

SPEAKER_02: 35:00

You're at the mercy of, and I thought, I mean, I did, I mean, I earned the right to be there. Yeah, yeah, you earned it. I mean, I I I I played well enough to make the team, that's why I made the team. But you know, at 24, if I was 28, different story. That slump wouldn't have happened. Yeah, yeah. You know, because it it became mental. Yeah. But yeah, the pressure was there. I mean, I I put tremendous amounts of pressure pressure on myself, but I think we all do. Like a perfectionist in arguably the most negative game ever invented.

SPEAKER_03: 35:36

And no disrespect to Chicago, but that could be a negative place to play. I mean, they they demand a lot of their own.

SPEAKER_02: 35:42

Yeah, but I'll I'll say this. I will say this. I I went there, it was comfortable because I again I went to IU. I had siblings that lived in Chicago at the time. I had everything I needed was right there. Friends, family, everything. So the transition was mega comfortable. Um, and I was hoping to be there for yeah as long as till they as long as possible. Yeah, I didn't think it would be as short as it was, but um and the fans, you know, maybe I blocked out some of the negative I they treated me amazing. New York probably would have been a different story, but for me it was just my career was decided in a in three weeks. Three weeks, and I was traded because I had a I had an amazing spring training my second year, and then I was hitting behind Sosa to like start the season, which 98, you know. Um that's a whole other story, but well we'll get to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:37

But go go back to in the minor leagues, you go off, kind of put it all all together, you're healthy. Yeah, you get to the big leagues, put together and peep people talk about the lights, they talk about the the third deck. Like, what was it mentally that kind of put you backwards? Do you feel like nobody told you that hey, you're here, this is this is your moment, your time. Like, what was it that kind of made that separation or that jump so big for you?

SPEAKER_02: 37:02

Um I I don't have to say, I mean, that was the steroid era was going on, so I was starting to feel that. And you know, I was just a clean-cut guy from St. Clair. And you were seeing dudes, I wasn't thinking about that stuff, not even close. I was just thrilled to be here and seeing how many tickets I could leave for family and friends, and how can I just make this last forever? The last thing in my mind was that. Um, so yeah, feeling that and seeing it and going, man, I how's you know, you start looking around and I know you can't help but be tempted by it, right? Everybody up there works hard, but I know the work ethic and what I was putting into it, and knowing the size and compared to some, and just can't you? So you gotta be starting wondering. You start, well, you start. You're thinking like, well, everybody else is doing it.

SPEAKER_03: 37:51

I'm right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 37:52

What am I missing out on? My rookie year, I didn't really know until later, late, late in the season. Like I just I didn't it really didn't resonate until you're kind of black out your rookie season.

SPEAKER_01: 38:05

100%.

SPEAKER_02: 38:06

Yeah, you don't even know what the thing's 100%.

SPEAKER_03: 38:09

I'm just gonna go.

SPEAKER_02: 38:15

Okay, I'm starting to get it. Uh-huh. And I'm, you know, working out, and they had a hitting coach come in and working with Sammy and I, and you know, trying to turn me into a home run hitter overnight. And you don't want to do that. Uh that's just not good. But there was pressure from that. I mean the cage, just swinging myself into the ground every morning at 7 15 a.m. because we had the day games, which, you know, it's just fine, but you know, Chicago.

SPEAKER_00: 38:40

Um and Sammy wasn't getting tired, probably.

SPEAKER_02: 38:43

No, Sammy wasn't getting tired. He wasn't getting tired. No, this swings in the cage. This swings in the cage. I'm just like, wow, that's impressive. Should I get a different back? Like, wait, what? It's making a different sound. Sitting home runs in the cage.

SPEAKER_00: 38:56

That's what nobody ever talks about. You talk about the strength, it's the ability to get tired, yeah, recovering, yeah. Yeah, and the ability to continually do it and not have the repercussions of like, man, my back is locked up from rotating this much.

SPEAKER_02: 39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:09

Because you're just so free and easy. It's crazy to think about it.

SPEAKER_02: 39:12

Yeah, I mean, it's funny having those conversations of people. It's still, I don't know what the percentages will be out there about what pe how people feel about it, about his steroid race or steroids in general. There are so many people that have actually like it kind of pisses me off. Yeah, I can understand. They don't know what the hell they're talking about. Yeah. And they're like, Yeah, but and these like guys that never play baseball, and they're like, Yeah, what steroids don't hit home runs. Oh, what difference does it make? Yeah. I'm like, okay. Yeah. All right. If it didn't make a difference, somebody would have done it. You know, you know, 80% of the players are whatever. It's the big leagues. Yeah. Everybody in the big leagues knows how and everybody there's different levels of hit. Ten feet matters and recovery and mindset. And the ballparks back then weren't small. Go back to mindset. Now they're small.

SPEAKER_00: 40:01

Think about mindset.

SPEAKER_02: 40:02

Yeah, mindset.

SPEAKER_00: 40:02

I mean it starts there. I'll never forget King Kong. Well, Todd Helton told me, like, when he worked out with the same trainer, like he got he got strong, he he became a different an animal. Sure. Whether I have no idea. Maybe. Yeah, maybe, maybe not. I have no idea. Love love Todd. Yeah. Never said a word to me, and I don't know. But like the reality of it is, his mindset's what's the difference? He'll tell you all the time. He knew that nobody was doing what he was doing. So when he walked in the box, he felt like he already won. And that is a game changer. When you walk in the box and you feel like I can't lose. Because it doesn't happen very often.

SPEAKER_02: 40:36

Yeah. I mean, that's that's that's really most of it. I mean, the talent. You know, but uh, who was it? Uh Shilling that had a I mean an interesting statement, and he had several. His his was about steroid use. He said it makes and I might be off a tad. It's like it makes a bad player good, it makes a good player great, makes a great player a Hall of Famer. Oh, that's good. And there's a lot of truth to that. And I've seen it, and and I won't mention like the the the cases that over the years that you know there's a guy you blow by in the minor leagues quickly who's hitting, you know, can't get above 220, whatever, it's hard to hit. And then three years later, it's you know, he's hitting three-hole or five-hole in the World Series. You're just like Where did that come from? It's not possible. Yeah, it doesn't work like that. So yeah, but the combination of that with just being a young guy without really having the professional, the true professional experience, the at-bats. Not I hadn't played uh I went to Arizona for I did an instructional league six weeks, and then I did a like a prospect camp in Arizona for three weeks. I didn't play Mexico, I didn't play you know overseas. I I I was I was more interested in like those off seasons, getting home. You're 24 or 22, 23, whatever, and trying to get stronger, you know, and just and doing that. But yeah, I felt like it just it wasn't enough. So there was always there was more doubt in my mind as a result of that than maybe there should have been. But again, at 28, that I wouldn't have let that happen, you know. But so I had three weeks where I I got in a uh it was in May. I got in a rut because in April, when the weather's cold and the wind's blowing in and off of uh Lake Michigan, I hit, I probably should have left that month with seven home runs, which is a big deal. Sure. Especially for me, a great guy. Yeah, yeah. And and because the cold didn't bother me because of in Indiana, we played in the end of February, and I never wore batting gloves. Like it it didn't, it didn't really bother me. So I had an advantage where every guy's we're wearing hoodies and masks and you know the throat covers. Um but I the slump started, and then I that's when I just started to swept. And then yeah, they started pitching me inside, and then you know, being a young guy. And I had a I knew the strike zone. We all know the strike zone, but I felt I had really good strike zone discipline. I I did I hated to strike out uh in another Yenser thing.

SPEAKER_00: 43:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 43:11

Like now you strike out 200 times a year, it's five million. Yeah, like I wanna die, I I wanna just I don't know what I want to do. I can't believe it. Yeah. OBPs, terrible. Doesn't matter. How do you win without getting on base? And I don't know. But it's different. Those are the things you care about. And yeah, and then the up when the umps start saying, Ah, that's good enough, you're out. I'm like, that's six inches inside. Like, thanks a lot. So it it snowballed a little bit, yeah. And then three weeks, then Ed Lynch was like, Boom, he's the GM. Yeah. And he was kind of on the he was on the hot seat too. So that's another thing, right? Like we are, we're just carcass. And and the timing has to be right for a lot of different things, you know, for guys' careers that you know, there's no excuses in the end, but um happened fast. I felt a little I was a little upset.

SPEAKER_00: 44:00

Yeah, did you feel like you didn't have like any idea what type of player you should be? Because it seemed like I mean I think about John Waynor, since you guys are good friends, Rock, like I mean it's a big human being.

SPEAKER_04: 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:11

And really a defensive oriented guy. And he fit on a lot of rosters, but he got created an identity. I talk about it with Browning a lot. But everybody knew who he was. Nobody tried to make him a power guy. Leland kind of dragged him along in different places. Did you feel like you're right in between? I felt like that a lot in my career. And then you go home, you're like, all right, what am I gonna work on? Yeah. But you're in the era of everything's changing really fast.

SPEAKER_02: 44:34

Yeah, yeah, it was. The timing wasn't good. And I know that people say, like, what are your regrets? And it's hard to say you have regrets. And this this really doesn't count, but I but I say I regret playing in the steroid era. Is that a fair regret? It really doesn't make sense, but well, it does, yeah. That's not like, well, I should have done this better, but but that's what I regret. And if that's even if that even makes sense, absolutely. That's what I regret.

SPEAKER_03: 44:58

I can totally understand that.

SPEAKER_00: 45:00

Completely makes sense. I mean, think about weights in general.

SPEAKER_03: 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:04

So like weights are just now really becoming a thing in baseball. And then also you talk about enhancement.

SPEAKER_02: 45:10

So you're getting it all at once. Yeah, and but you're getting proper training now back. I mean, I remember doing like military presses over my head, like as heavy as I could, and coming in, like, yeah, and then I started throwing all of a sudden I'm like, oh, tendonitis. I missed like a week for tendinitis. And I'm thinking, you're doing military presses. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, but nope. It wasn't like it wasn't, yeah. It's all about like the balance work and the band work, and I mean that's where it's at. When I I started toward the end of my career, is when I got into that stuff, and it was it made a big difference.

SPEAKER_03: 45:42

Well, you know, in 97, back to that rookie year, it was still the whole thing. It was a solid, solid year. You got some rookie of the year boats.

SPEAKER_02: 45:49

I mean, I got a decent amount of at bats, yeah, but uh they protected me from time to time. Yeah, I would have loved to get like 550 at bats in the big leagues once. That would have been nice.

SPEAKER_03: 45:57

Well, we've talked about that before, too, about what happens to guys. You remember Chad Hermanson?

SPEAKER_02: 46:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 46:02

I mean, yeah. Woody Heike says he can walk on water, jumps to the big leagues. He doesn't play more than five consecutive games. Doesn't play more than five consecutive games. Number one pick. It's impossible. It's impossible. And sits in the back and spring, and now all these voices are coming in there and telling them what to do. You can just see it in the clubhouse of the batting cage. This guy's over there talking to another guy.

SPEAKER_00: 46:22

I mean, it sounds like how often we watch guys come up and they're not the player they were in the minor leagues. Like they're not even playing the same. That's right. That's right. It's a whole different thing. It's completely a different game for it. They're not a play off the bench of the big leagues. Good luck.

SPEAKER_02: 46:35

Yeah, good luck. It's impossible. It's true. But then later on, you start to see the guys that that you know you watch. I was playing with all of us watch, and I played against a lot of these guys with you know the all uh the Dante Bichettes, and now all their kids are, you know, if if it's between you know Bobby and Dante Bachette's kid, who you're gonna this guy's maybe a little more talent.

SPEAKER_01: 47:00

He'd look good in black and yellow. I'm going to I'm going Bachet. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:04

I mean you're playing the you're you're protecting that what if mentally. I mean, that's a big deal. No doubt. That's who I'd be drafting. These guys have been around it their whole their whole life.

SPEAKER_00: 47:12

Yeah, it's like Ethan Holiday's probably gonna be a top 10 pick next year.

SPEAKER_02: 47:15

Maybe if my dad was a big leaguer, maybe those those three weeks wouldn't have happened for me. See, there you go. That's right.

SPEAKER_00: 47:21

Well, I mean, that they're always around. I'm I mean, Little Bo is around even when I was in Colorado, and I believe he was probably 12, 13, 14, but he was around. Yeah, you think who he's around? He's around Tulitsky. Who does his game remind you of a shortstop, Tulitsky?

SPEAKER_02: 47:35

Pat Mahomes' kid. He was around. He wanted to play baseball. He was around Shagg and flybys in Nashville. Yeah, you know, you think he's afraid of anything?

SPEAKER_00: 47:46

You're exactly right.

SPEAKER_02: 47:47

He was running through walls catching fly balls. His dad had to like take him off the field and be like, all right, you're you're good. You're good.

SPEAKER_00: 47:53

Speaking of Brandon Edge's kid is supposed to be something else.

SPEAKER_02: 47:55

Is he?

SPEAKER_00: 47:56

Oh, yeah? Yeah, I'm excited to see because he was tough minded. So yeah, you're exactly right. There's a huge advantage that I grew up with Del Monaco's, the dad coach at University of Tennessee. Those kids were always around. The third kid came in, first rounder. You know, you knew they were gonna be special because they were around the game so much.

SPEAKER_02: 48:13

Yeah, it's crazy. And there's a lot of them. There's it seems like there's a lot. I mean, you got Vlad's kid playing, and I'm I'm leaving a bunch out. Yeah, Biggio and Key Brian Hayes.

SPEAKER_00: 48:22

Key Brian Hayes. Key Brian, yeah. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:25

Yeah. So you got so how I was looking at the the top rookies in '97. As I said, you you and about 11 others got rookie of the year votes in the National League. Three of them are Hall of Famers.

SPEAKER_04: 48:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:39

Speaking of Guerrero, Vlad Guerrero was at rookie class. Senior. Andrew Jones, Scott Rowland won the rookie of the year in 97, a Hall of Famer now. Yeah. Levon Hernandez, Matt Morse, Rich Loisella, who was a pirate. Brett Tomka, Jose Guyan, a pirate, Jeremy Gonzalez, who was a cub. God rest the soul. Tony Wolman. Yeah. And Nathy Spirez.

unknown: 49:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 49:01

Yeah. That's that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 49:03

Andrew Jones should be a Hall of Famer PS.

SPEAKER_03: 49:05

Yeah. So anyway, now you go to now you go, now you're uh and your manager at the Cubs, was that Don Baylor? No.

SPEAKER_01: 49:13

Um big darn my manager.

SPEAKER_03: 49:15

Oh, Jim Wriggleman.

SPEAKER_02: 49:16

It was Jim Riggleman. Oh man. Oh, he was a tough guy. So he it was Wrigleman, but he was, you know, and he had some of his minor league guys, like staff guys. I it may have been their first opportunity. But imagine being Wrigleman. And take me out of the equation. But you had Mark Grace, Brian Sandberg, Sean Dunstan, my punk ass. How about that infield though, man? Oh, Henry Rodriguez. Jeez. I think Lance Johnson. Oh my gosh. And then I think Sammy.

unknown: 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:49

Who was catcher? And then Wrigleman. Like, what's he gonna say? Any idea who the catcher is? That's a pretty good team. I think it was uh uh Scott Service. Okay, I think it was Scotty that year, and then there were a few other guys at Tyler Houston, okay, maybe was that that year or the next year that fill filled in. Um that year, guess what? That team sounds great, right? Yeah, not so much. He started 0-14. What in the big leagues? My rookie year. I was lost.

SPEAKER_01: 50:17

Oh my god. There's enough pressure. We all had pitching too, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02: 50:22

Not really.

SPEAKER_01: 50:22

Not really.

SPEAKER_02: 50:23

That came later. Came later where they brought like Woody up and destroyed his arm. And then prior, um, we didn't have yeah, we didn't have bona fide aces. We had, I mean, great guys, but we didn't have oh, and 14. I won 14. It was horrible. It was horrible. I remember Gracie came up to him and pat me on the shoulder. He goes, kid, I promise you, it's gonna get better. I looked at him like I was sitting there, I had like a towel over my head in Florida. Like, oh my god, how am I gonna get through this?

SPEAKER_03: 50:56

So was it almost a relief to get traded? No, no, it was not because no, my thought was just send me down.

SPEAKER_02: 51:02

Yeah, yeah. Just send me down. Yeah, I mean, for how many years? I didn't forget how to play baseball. Right. What about all these years and your magazines and all whatever that the crap is you do? Yeah. And for three weeks, like you just you just give up on somebody. That's how I felt. Yeah, I didn't. I know it's a it's a business, but I didn't really affair. I kind of look at it's whether it's either me or Ed Lynch, so it's probably gonna be me. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I didn't think it was, I didn't think I was handled right at all. And I don't think that's a bold statement.

SPEAKER_03: 51:30

I mean well, when you go so it's interesting though that you go in '98 to the Marlins the year after they win the series, and now they're on. I mean, Leland was out. Yeah. It's a disaster.

SPEAKER_02: 51:43

Yeah, totally destroyed the catch. Skipper and his like his finest moments, but it was still great to to play with them and spend some time and and and suffer together. You know, we had a few fun nights. Um, you know, that that's what we had to back-to-back to back, maybe even four home runs in a row. And he got kicked out, Skipper got kicked out of the game in St. Louis early. And he was, you know, trying to, and he he had a legit beef that day. And he was in his tidy whiteys and he was down in the tunnel. He wouldn't leave. So he stunk, he he hung in there the whole game. So, you know, if you you made an out, you go and slam your helmet or go take a pee, you could see him right down there. He could still there. In his tighties, nothing else, and in his his heaters. Yeah. So I was like, all right. And then later on, we go back. I think it was like Kotz, was it Cliff Floyd, Derek Lee, myself, and Kotze, four home runs in a row to win the game. We were down like nine to damn near nothing. And I I just that's one moment with with the skipper that coming down there, and everyone was just, you know, just hugging him in like a big pile of smoke. He was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03: 52:51

The the night he got tossed. Yeah. Was the was the back to back to back to back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 52:55

You ever think you were gonna hug a man in Whitey Tidies?

SPEAKER_03: 52:57

No. No.

SPEAKER_02: 52:59

No, I didn't. I didn't.

SPEAKER_01: 53:00

It's never too late.

SPEAKER_02: 53:04

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 53:05

Fire Brown Andrew and Whitey Ties.

SPEAKER_03: 53:07

Maybe they did that in IUP. I don't know. So no, so now you you finish up well, you don't even finish the year in '98, right? You get traded. Do you get traded in 98? You got traded again? Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02: 53:20

I yeah, I finished year. Oh, a free agent. Because Mike Lowell was ready to come up at that point. Well, yeah, they had made a move for him, and he was he was coming back from cancer. He wasn't even close to being ready. Wow. And they brought him up. He had like limited uh at bats in triple A. And I was up there. I think I hit maybe 260 while I was up there. And I still wasn't right mentally, but I was like, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 53:45

You're grinding.

SPEAKER_02: 53:46

Yeah, I'm grinding. I'm grinding. I was listening to some tapes, you know, mental tape stuff, you know, going to the ballpark. I was still fighting. Yeah. But I got through okay. Um, and then all of a sudden, like Lowell's up there. I'm like, what's he doing here? You know, I'm like, I'm sure that helped you move out. He's not ready to play. He's not healthy. It's not a negative shot. I mean, the guy had cancer. He had a testicle removed.

SPEAKER_00: 54:09

And you guys aren't playing for anything.

SPEAKER_02: 54:10

Which is funny. I I probably it's safe to say these things on here, right? Absolutely. You can say anything here.

SPEAKER_00: 54:16

You just told the truth. Yeah, no, it's true. It's a truth-telling podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 54:19

It's full of my cutter. He uh so he's up there, and I'm like, this isn't right, you know. All right. At least, you know, if you're ready and you earned it and I'm not doing anything. So yeah, the writing was kind of on the wall. And, you know, it was Miami. It wasn't, they don't care about the clean-cut guy from St. Clair. Yeah. Cuban descent. That that's more of a draw. Yeah. So yeah, so he has the cancer, he has the surgery, has the testicle removed, and his uh email address, his email address, which was great. Not poking fun of it. One ball two eight at Yahoo.

SPEAKER_00: 54:53

You've got to have fun with something. How great is that?

SPEAKER_01: 54:55

Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's great. That's solid. He's a great guy.

SPEAKER_02: 54:59

He owned it. Absolutely is tremendous. Yeah, this is not a You can't want to run away from your head. You did nothing wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 55:05

This is not a this is the business of it.

SPEAKER_02: 55:07

But you know, you embrace it.

SPEAKER_03: 55:09

Uh, so the the he's he's now at the club, you get you're you get Wendy's there and you go, what's going on?

SPEAKER_02: 55:15

Yeah, so and then we started, then we started uh well, then I tore my quad, which was great. It didn't help.

SPEAKER_00: 55:22

No.

SPEAKER_02: 55:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 55:24

You think that was a stress too?

SPEAKER_02: 55:25

It was it didn't help, but I what do I think it was? I'll tell you what I think it was. They had a a two-mile test in the offseason. When you come into spring training, you're gonna do this two-mile test on a treadmill. No, yeah, so out and and me, I'm just like two-mile test. Oh my god, I'm gonna focus on this and I'm gonna give it all. Give my all. Well, I I won it. Oh, me and Matt Mantai. I think he won the pitchers and I I won the position players, who cares? But I'm running on a treadmill doing two miles. That was most of my training after I was like power lifting and I did my quad. And I was like, coincidence? Yeah, I think not. You learn a lesson. But so when I came back from that, it took a while. We we were doing every other day. So in in 99, where'd you go? I got traded to uh LA. Oh, that's right. At the yeah, at the end of the season, I mean they they kind of sensed my frustration and I talked to Bowles and he gave me some half-assed uh I left more confused than I was going in.

SPEAKER_00: 56:31

That's always a good feeling. Yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_02: 56:33

I was like, geez, would somebody just tell me? Yeah, and um, yeah, so I got traded to LA where uh Adrian Beltray, remember the scandal where you know they signed him illegal documentation, they signed him young, and so they thought they were gonna lose him. So they brought me in in case they lost him. Holy cow. They ended up keeping him. It was like a slap on the wrist, it was a little fine for the Dodgers, and then he stayed. At the very end of spring training, they said, Oh, we're not gonna keep you. The very end, like the last day, pulled me off the field.

SPEAKER_00: 57:03

So you had a lot of time to find another job.

SPEAKER_02: 57:05

Are you kidding me? Jeez. So that was my first year arbitration, so the first like money year. Um, yeah, and that and then not even a chance to like sign on to a big league club early. You know, I I don't I don't think they do that. I'm not in the day by day, but for at least what I saw with some of the pirate stuff years ago, I don't think they do that today. You know, like they're terrified to trade somebody to a division right, right? Right. Like you still see it happen, sure. Um but that one was, yeah. I I played okay against LA. I I thought over my career, but I I think they valued me more than maybe I thought I played against them, especially defensively. But yeah. Um, and that was another one. I was a lost soul after that. I went from townhome shopping in Manhattan Beach to a extended stay in Omaha, Nebraska. Man, with a I was never depressed in my life.

SPEAKER_03: 58:02

I was that was that was really close. That was as close as that was uh April 2000 with KC. That's about right. Then you end up with the Yankees organization later that year, right? Yeah, I took an outclause and went went to New York.

SPEAKER_02: 58:14

And what was that experience like? Which what was their triple A that's well I took an out clause. My sister and her husband uh lived in Columbus. Were they in Columbus, yeah. The Yankees were. And I didn't see anything. They were waiting, they they re-signed Joe Randa, uh Kansas City, and they said they weren't gonna sign him. That was part of the reason why I went there. Oh, and so I was doing working with George Brett.

SPEAKER_00: 58:36

So you got business every way possible.

SPEAKER_02: 58:38

Yeah, so I had like one-on-ones with George Brett. So I'm back in these, you know, hitting things, and and then they sign him to a multi-year deal. I'm like, oh great, thank you. Okay, next, yeah. So I was like, you know what, I'm doing this one for me. My sister's in in Dublin, Ohio, with yeah, her husband Rob. And I'm like, I'm gonna go there and at least have fun for a couple, two and a half months. So I signed with the Yankees and yeah, did that, and then uh at the end of the season tore my planter fascia and then was Phillies for organization. Yeah, signed with the Phillies and then back to the Cubs. And um, yeah, they weren't. How'd that happen?

SPEAKER_03: 59:19

How'd the Cub thing happen when you got back there?

SPEAKER_02: 59:22

Yeah, I I wanted to go back.

SPEAKER_03: 59:23

Oh, yeah, it was just kind of an unfinished business thing to know.

SPEAKER_02: 59:27

I like kind of like that chip, and I was like, Yeah, I'm not done. This doesn't need to be over. So that's that's why I signed back there. And did you get back to the big leagues then in 02? Got back to the big leagues, yeah. Who was managing then at uh September call-up? Was that Baylor then?

SPEAKER_03: 59:43

Bruce Kim. Bruce Kim was your manager, man.

SPEAKER_02: 59:46

Yeah, but I got a chance to work with Don Baylor um that spring training. And you know how you kind of take a little something from every hitting instructor, or you know, who was better is my hitting which guy for me, it's not one guy that changed everything. I had a little bit, I remember like Richie Zisk was uh, hey, you got to drive the ball to center field, or you know, as much as possible the guys on base. You know, I yeah, you knew that, but you didn't. But you know, when you're really legitimately trying to work on it in a live situation, is where you get the reps that are, you know, you're like, well, if I did that my way, I I would have got the guy in. But that's how you uh so things like that. And then Don Baylor taught me the the inside pitch, just pulling the hands in. Nobody ever showed me that because I could always hit the inside. I mean, I was like a upper body wired guy, um, you know, versus most guys are lower body, lower half wired. But I never knew anything about here and pulling, like literally the drill we did, we had the short bat, and he stood over there, yep, and I stood here with my bat, and I'm like, what the heck? Oh my god. He would just he would throw it at my you know, my my lats or whatever. And so some you just take and it would hit you, but you had to get comfortable with like the only way you could hit it is if you tucked that in and went down. How about that? And so I started doing that, and I'm like, oh, that's how I see. And you know, I'm long-armed and like Richie Sexton apparently used to it, you know, he was tall long. He used to work on that, and he tore his his labrum doing those drills. Doing the drills, but I learned that from Don Baylor. I'm like, God, it would have been nice to be nice to learn that one earlier on just to start working on it. Fort you're shaking your head like you know those drills, Baylor, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:27

Yeah, he was my heading coach, Colorado. Colorado he kept kind of going against it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:31

Is that one of his? Did he yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:33

He was just trying to prove to me how good I was at that ball in. Nobody wanted me to hit it the other way. Yeah, he's like, but don't forget, like this is the easy potion for you. Like you're big, long arms, I'm short, little arms, and I could get there. So he gave me the biggest batter of the B567. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, it's literally like a tree trunk. He's like, go get it. And I was hitting balls that I couldn't imagine just out to left center. Yeah, and he was like, Don't ever forget that. And it was something that's true. I didn't double down on, but I probably should have.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:04

I wish I would have learned that earlier just to just to work on it. I think it would have helped me when in those three weeks where I where they started pounding me in, and I was thinking about it, and I was kind of cat because I would cast out a little bit, uh, but I I had like a real late little thing that I could make up for it and like give another load and get it here versus just doing the slow and if you get there, it goes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:24

It's wild.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:25

It it the Leland game I mentioned, the four home runs, the back to back to back, that's exactly what happened. I never hit a ball like that. That I I just my hands just went in and I was like, oh my gosh, I felt like my pants were down, and all of a sudden it just took off to left high. And I'm like, Did I just do that? I felt like a complete accident. Wow. And it was because of Don Baylor's drill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:48

The leverage a big guy can create if he understands the angles to get there is unreal. Yeah, and with the technology now, oh my gosh, they would have been like, oh yeah, you got it. Yeah, right away. Yeah, yeah, like that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:59

You talk about taking uh things from different guys, coaches, managers, whatnot, because you uh after the Cubs, you spend time in Cleveland's organization, uh August of 04, I think Houston, Milwaukee.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:12

So you just covered a nice jersey collection, I would say.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:17

I started, and injuries just followed me around. But I had whatever wherever I went, I make sure I had an outclause, you know, like July 15th, I think it was, and I started taking those outclauses. I mean, I I was like, I was my own sales rep. I'd be at third base talking to third base coaches and about they're like, why what are you doing here? You if you were with us, you would have been in the big leagues four months ago. And you're like, you don't want to hear that? No. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm out of here. Yeah.

unknown: 1:03:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:45

You know, the clock's ticking next time you come through. My numbers are still gonna be the same. I'm gonna follow up. And I and I left. Uh, where was I at the time? I think it was with the Brewers. We had a really good team. It was Prince Fielder, Corey Hart, you know, Pirate. We all y'all are in Nashville. I was with all those guys.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:01

I went and watched you guys play. And we won it, did you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:04

Um, Ricky Weeks. They were legit. Yeah, we were loaded. Nelly, Nelly, uh, and I was a cleanup guy.

unknown: 1:04:11

Dang.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:12

They were huge too. Like, yeah, we were big body solids.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:16

Yeah, and I left at the end of the season. I was like an outclaws, and I and Milwaukee wasn't doing anything. I knew they weren't gonna call me up. So I left and uh they ended up winning it all. And he was their player development guy. He texted me. That's how and read me out via text about leaving. Oh, I was like, Were you gonna call me up? It's like, no. But part of me is like, yeah, maybe I should have stayed because that whole team went to the big leagues. Went to the big leagues, you know. I'm like, damn. That wasn't Jack Serenzik. No, no, I'm uh what was his name? I think I blocked him out of my mind. Was that 05? I think that was 05.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:52

It was I was in college. I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:54

Yeah, it was 05.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:54

I've never forget going to watch him play. I think Ricky and Prince Phil Randcore Hart all went deep.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:59

On that old state, the old stadium with the big guitar? Greer. Herschel Greer. It was cool though. If you hit a home run in left center there, they had a big guitar. Oh yeah, huge guitar. Yeah. So before the next game, they'd do the announcement. Hey, congratulate. And they'd come and they'd give you a guitar. You'd hold it up like that's great. So cool. Yeah. There's a nice guitar. It's great. So I started trading the guitars, you know, because I'm like, what am I gonna do with these guitars? Yeah. So we we we had a little wager, you know. So I Pat Borders was there. Oh, yeah. So I started trading my guitars for Bud Light. So I got like so it became like two cases of Bud Light for for every guitar. So I had them stacked up between Borders and I lock our locker. I'm like, I don't know if we're gonna be able to drink all this. Oh my gosh. I still have one guitar I held on to. Wow. It's in the basement.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:45

But but but I think in oh five, that was one of your best years of your professional career. Three fifty two, twenty homeworks, eighty nine ribeyes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:56

Yeah. And I got I got a decent amount of a bath for once. So that made a difference. Yeah, I was if I didn't get like two hits a game or at least a walk in two hits, I was like ready to that was a fair ballpark.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:07

It wasn't like balls jumping out of that ballpark. It was a fair ballpark.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:10

No, it was it was fair. It was very fair. I think that was your last year. Was that your last year? Yeah, I was like, I didn't get called up and I was like, I I don't know, like I can I do this again in the Pacific Coast League traveling those red-eye flights at four. I mean, I knew I should have been in the big leagues, yeah. But you know, I'm sure a lot of people have said that. But I'm like, I have to be able to mentally and physically do this again. You know, you're sleeping in the airport, yeah. You know, I wasn't 24, yeah, but it was hard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:42

It's the hardest travel by far.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:43

Yeah, you'll go through and they make me take the red eye. Yeah. For the the I guess was brew as a game where the equipment didn't make it. So ever since then, there was a new rule that every triple A team you had to take the red eye. So 4 o'clock, 4:30 flights. I mean, you're just a zombie. And you finish your game sometimes at 11:30. Yep. Guys were, you know, geez back then. I mean, guys would be like, Well, we're just going out and we're just gonna go straight to the yeah. I'm like, that's not gonna work for the next day. Yeah, but I'm not 22. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:12

Day two is always the hardest for me. Oh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:15

You go home and hope you could get like a 40-minute nap, and then you'd jump on the bus.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:19

But yeah, did did the good old days did didn't the pirates uh approach you at one point?

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:26

I was close. Wait, when my shoulder wasn't uh Cleveland, my my shoulder still hadn't recovered from I tore my labrum consecutively. Okay. And then they said, you know, are you gonna be ready? And I told them clutch. I said, Yeah, I'm gonna be ready. And I and I wasn't.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:40

So do you remember your first game playing as an opponent at Three Rivers and or PNC? Oh yeah. You do? Yeah. Details, what do you got? Three Rivers. Um man. Was it special? Oh it had to be special.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:57

Yeah, I had I had a I ended up having a good series. Um I hit I had I hit a ball left center off the base of the wall, and it shot. This was at Three Rivers, and it shot like weird behind the center fielder. So I'm going around second, and I, you know, at that point I'm thinking, there's no way. You know, I'm I'm I'm thinking to triple because I'm not thinking inside the park. So my my turn wasn't great going into third, and all of a sudden the third base coach is like, go. I'm like, what? So I take this turn like damn near by the dugout, and I come in, it's Kendall right there, and he's blocking the plate. I mean, he's standing right on it. And I'm like, I didn't I I was out of gas. And I'm like, do I kill him? Holy. But he had his legs spread, so I went head first, right between his legs. I was safe by that much. He tagged me on like my lower back. I'm ready to get up, and like all of my family, friends were all right there, right above the dugout. I mean, everybody. And he goes, punches. No way pre-replay, of course. Oh man, I I get up, I had two hands full of dirt, and I fired at him right at his face and say some other things. He didn't throw me out of the game, didn't throw me out. Do you remember who it was? Called me out. I I to this day I forget his name. Again, selective.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:14

Yeah, so I'm probably something you don't want to remember.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:16

No, and I saw him in Chicago years later, and I had I had I talked to him in the establishment. Uh no, he didn't remember it. But I said, You didn't realize what you did. So you cost me a home run. But yeah, it was fun. That three rivers. That was three rivers. So that's my most memorable moment there. And my most memorable moment at PNC was probably hitting a ball down the line and hit that little that little wall and it kicked out.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:45

And I'm like, I'm still going for two, and I got hosed a second.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:50

Is that right? In there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:51

Yeah, I'm like, no, wait, he's not gonna make a good throw by Hell Stash. It's hilarious. Yeah, so that was bad. But no, PNC was great, except I didn't feel comfortable playing third base there because of that stone. That stone was the color of the ball. So I I was uncomfortable seeing the ball off the bat. So anyway. Um, but yeah, got got through okay. But yeah, Bruce Kim was my manager, he was my double-A manager. So that had a little something to do with it. Me being back there, signing back there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:24

Now, at some point you gotta say, okay, that's enough. Obviously, you do, right? Yeah, yeah. What are you gonna do after playing days?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:31

Everybody talking me out of it, but I um yeah, I was I was I was angry, but I was I was healthy finally for once. But and then uh yeah, I came back and I had been doing stuff on the side with in in real estate investing and start investing in like hotel stuff. And ironically, these these two hotels here. So I said, all right, maybe I'll learn the other side of it. So I went and got my uh sales license and got into commercial real estate, and so where I could, you know, I wasn't a development expert, but I knew you know, I'd sit in on the Marriott week uh meetings and stuff after I'd work out, and then um yeah, I got my sales license and started seeing the other side of it. I did that for five years during the recession, oh seven. That that was miserable. Um and then I got into our company folded and it was a big tug of war who was going where, and I was like, I'm out. I then I got to gig with uh the fan, started doing the pirate pre and post-game. Did you like that? Did you like the that part of the biz? Yeah, it was nice, it was great being back in it. Yeah, I mean it it's it's good to stay involved, and I wanted to stay involved because if you don't stay involved, yeah, you know how it is. I mean, those guys that you just go off the reservation, you get forgotten, and then yeah, and you're just out of it. And it's so it's nice to that's where the alumni has been good for me, and I know it's important to kind of help out and be a part of it. Um but yeah, five years. It was it was fun. And well, at least three of those years they were a winning organization. So that was pretty cool. So I I was able to become a pirate fan again versus you know, you once you play against them, it's a business, it's different. Now it's just like you're just looking at it through completely different lenses. But yeah, it was it was it it was fun, you know, the hours, you know, summer. So I had to do they they helped me out because I had uh I was a one-man show at home and I had little kids. So I was able to get a home set up for a while. So that's the only reason I was able to do it even that long, not that it was that long, I was doing some of it from my house, which you know led to some bad things, like my my daughter's coming in. We had like a nine-minute break. I'm like, all right, I had to go like grab something. So I run the other side of the house or go upstairs and I come back down and I look for my daughter and she's gone. I'm like, my gosh. Oh no. And she's she's live on the air. What? Oh yeah, singing Taylor Swift. No way and Zangrilly came back early. He said I had nine minutes, and it ended up being six minutes. No way. Like, how does that happen? So, yeah, she was singing Taylor Swift on the air. So the next 48 hours they played it all over. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, tomorrow. This job, this this gig was great, but I think it's probably gonna be over tomorrow. I guess I'll have my summer back. No, which which which daughter did that? That was uh Ava. Ava. Yeah, my old.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:28

Three daughters, uh three daughters, yeah. Of course, you were you uh do you think about how what an unbelievable job you did once your wife passed away?

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:36

It was a different story, I know, but to four and six. My gosh, it was harder to get back in baseball, let alone do anything different, you know. So my my career was very limited. It's fine. If I but if I wanted to get back into baseball, like what was I gonna do? Yeah, I couldn't really, I couldn't leave. Yeah. I mean, if I did, I I I wasn't there, wasn't an option, you know. So made it work.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:59

Man, yeah, believe something else. I keep looking for the I keep looking for the umpire, but we're not gonna get them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:05

So I I've I've done it and I just can't I can't find them.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:08

That bumps me out because it's not not good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:10

I know. Shorter guy, glasses, grayish hair, kind of curly. Oh well. I know anyway, okay. Steve Paul.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:18

Yeah, I have no Paul?

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:19

Not Rungi. Um oh well, we'll look it up afterward and we'll get our next our next uh podcast. We'll do that. You didn't throw me out, so I can't. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:27

Yeah, that's it. I'm gonna give it to you out of it. Because when I slid, it was just when I came up. I was I was a mess. It wasn't like the a a pure you know, pop back up. I mean, I was out of gas. I've I I don't recall ever attempting an inside the park home run, even the minor leagues. I don't know. Do you have many?

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:45

How many?

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:46

No. I had five triples that year. I'm not sure how that happened, but yeah. So he didn't he didn't throw me out. And I hit him, I mean, I hit him right there. Fag on it. That's good stuff. That's great.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:57

That's great.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:58

We knew he deserved it then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:00

He did. Yeah. That's a home run.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:02

That is great. How's the golf game? Still doing it. No, because more than just still doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:08

It's not great. It's not great. I slipped a stroke or two this year.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:12

So when you and Wayner go out and you're talking in strokes or two? No, I'm like one or two.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:16

I can barely get up the steps. So I'm like a I'm like an 11. He's on the room. So I was a nine. I was a nine. He's got this leg issue you've had for years. Yeah, the nerve thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:26

He's still unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:27

He crushes a golf ball. It's not pretty, but it's incredible. I'll do the Fred McGriff sometimes, the one arm. Yeah. I just do the one arm. Yeah. Like it. Posing the whole one leg.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:38

Feel. I mean, he's got a feel.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:39

That's all it is. Well, I don't know. I don't want to.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:42

I'm not comfortable playing in front of everybody, but you're not like Wayner when he ran or when he was not a good golfer, what he did. You know this. Yeah, no, he would run, sprint to the T because he didn't want anybody else to see him. I'd I'd be driving the golf cart. And he would, I hadn't stopped yet. And he'd slow down. And he'd run down the path and where are you going? He goes, T T off. What for? He goes, I don't want anybody else to see me. And he'd pop the ball up. Now he crushes the ball and the bark now. Now he's always the last guy to the tee. He wants everybody to be.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:16

Well, he went and got last thing, and he'd like stop straight Barclay. Really? And now he's he's joining clubs. Oh, West Virginia.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:25

The man from Carrick is now a country clubber. That's the thing. Oh, so this guy stayed true to his Yenser roots. This guy left Cranberry and he's got places all over the all over the U.S. Anna Maria Island. Yeah. West Virginia. Rock, are you hearing this? He'll hear it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:43

He's heard it. I mean, we're just trying to justify. We're truth tellers here. I'll take my my licks. I understand, but you know, he got another car before I had one. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:50

It sounds like his interest maybe died a little bit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:53

Oh, they're gone.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:55

Thank you. Thanks. This is really a treat.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:57

Thank you. Really appreciate it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:59

This, you know, sometimes sometimes you you do podcasts, not this one, but sometimes you listen to podcasts. It's like they're going through a root canal. I swear. It's like it's unbelievable. That's that's tomorrow. But oh, really? You're having oh, well, I'm having to go. Tomorrow, no big deal.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:14

I did all this with a chip tooth.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:15

Thanks for grinding.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:17

Hey, you grind it through.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:19

You a grinder. Kevin Ori the grinder. That's what uh hold my cutter. There we go. Hold my cutter. Hold my proof.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:26

I want you, I want proof. Let's see. We got nose hairs coming through. We don't need that. I've been soid on nothing this game. Well done. I love this.