Baseball, Cigars, and Redemption

Speaker 1 0:00

And welcome to Hold my Cutter. We're here at Burn by Rocky Patel and our director this episode is Leonard Lee. Our stage manager, matt Vismorris, and the general manager here at Burn by Rocky Patel is Jim Fisher. Hold my Cutter, as you may know by now, combines baseball talk and smoking fine cigars. Most episodes originate here at Burn by Rocky Patel and our special guest this episode has recommended this very special smoke, mr fort michael mckenry. This rocky 2024, the year of the dragon for the chinese zodiac. Limited production only 6 000 boxes produced. Once they're gone, they're gone. Filler tobacco, harvested in 2014 in aging ever since mexican san andres wrapper and filler, full strength, full flavor. Anyone who wants a roller coaster ride, we're told, is wanting to have this special year of the dragon for the Chinese zodiac and brownie.

Speaker 2 1:00

I mean that's kind of why he brought it Roller coaster ride.

Speaker 1 1:03

yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 1:04

If you want a roller coaster ride, you better watch this podcast and go a little further. The dragon has a yangy earth possession of resilience and confidence, so that's what we're expecting today.

Speaker 1 1:14

I wonder if our guest tim mertaw could comment on that. Tim, why did you choose this?

Speaker 3 1:18

of all cigars. Well, you know it's honestly uh, greg, I gotta be honest with it's sort of a mystery to myself. I appreciate it I love getting credit for stuff I had nothing to do with.

Speaker 2 1:31

Well, that's good. It was a feel. Yeah, just a bit of a feel. It's a vibe. It's a vibe, tim Murtaugh. It's a vibe.

Speaker 1 1:38

He is in town. You know the name Murtaugh if you're a Pirates fan, or a baseball fan for that matter. His grandfather, the late great Danny Murtaugh Many believe we included should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame, but he's in the Pirates Hall of Fame Second winningest manager in Pirates history. We're going to get into baseball, of course, with Tim Murtaugh, who's in town. Who's in town as we are recording this episode because his grandfather, danny, is being posthumously inducted into the Irish American Baseball Hall of Fame and there's a pregame ceremony taking place at PNC Park. And, of course, you know by now if you've watched or heard any of these episodes of Hold my Cutter Burn by Rocky Patel, just a few blocks down from PNC Park. Tim, tell us about, first of all, you're wearing, for those watching the podcast, you're wearing the 1971 World Series ring.

Speaker 2 2:34

Can I touch it? Oh sure.

Speaker 3 2:36

That's your grandfather wore Played big league baseball.

Speaker 1 2:40

Danny Murtaugh won the 60 and 71 World Series, a number of pennants, division titles. Tell us what you knew of your grandfather, Danny.

Speaker 3 2:50

Well, it was really. Thank you. It was really a great way to grow up as a kid, having grandpa run a Major League Baseball team and, as we were just talking before we started to tape here, we're lucky enough to have three World Series rings in the family. My father, also named Tim, was a manager in the Pirates organization and he was managing, I think, in Salem, virginia, the Class A ball club in 1971, and they gave all the minor league managers World Series rings too. So in our family we had two rings from 71 and one from what is probably, I think, one of the most famous World Series ever and probably the one that ended in the most dramatic fashion in 1960. The World Series ring from that, which is a neat one, because it has a little. You've seen, it has a little map of Forbes Field on it in three dimensions. That one's kind of neat. But I have the 71 one, which I'm very proud of.

Speaker 3 3:37

It was just a neat way to grow up as a little kid, like in the off season when grandpa would come over to our house. I would I would tell all my little friends, you know grandpa's coming over because he was a, you know, big baseball star. But most of us. You know I have five first cousins. There are six of us in the Myrtle grandchildren and you know we all just thought of him as grandpa and I'm I'm the oldest of six and so I love guess I have the clearest memories out of the grandchildren because I was, I was the oldest but, even so, I was seven years old when he died, and so I these days.

Speaker 3 4:12

I'm not really sure which of my memories are actual memories and which are things that I've sort of acquired because people have told me stories about them, and there are there are a million stories about about danny murtel, let me tell you. I imagine we'll get to some of them here, but I look forward to this conversation. Thank you very much for having me both you guys, it's an honor to sit with you two great names from pittsburgh pirate history. Honestly it really was.

Speaker 2 4:34

That's an honor, thank you.

Speaker 1 4:35

That's an honor to be included with them thank you for that, tim and tim uh we've got his book here uh recently out. Uh he wrote swing hard in case you hit it. It's kind of your story, a rebound story. We recently had uh beth hallam, who's a an allegheny county executive, uh telling her story here on hold. My cutter and beth went through uh quite a time in her life. She was literally on the streets as a heroin addict and, of course, in prison. You have a similar story of rebounding to tell and I love that title. Of course, swing Hard in Case you Hit it.

Speaker 3 5:11

I love that title. Thank you that title. Actually that's sort of an homage to my dad, because when I would leave the house to go to baseball practice, he thought he was being funny. He would say, hey, swing hard in case you hit it Right, and so I that phrase just sort of stuck with me and I think, if you think about it, that's a pretty good philosophy for anything that you do in life, no matter what it is not to be baseball, not to be sports of any kind.

Speaker 3 5:36

If you're engaged in some kind of activity, you might as well put maximum effort into it, because if you succeed somehow, the more effort you put into it, the greater your set success will actually be right.

Speaker 3 5:46

So if you're sort of, you know, going about it half-heartedly and you actually connect, it's not going to be as great as if you really put your weight before, so swing hard in case you hit it. That's that's why uh, that's that's what I called it and it really it is my story. Really, it's about it's half about politics and my life in politics, because I've worked as a, as an operative, in lots of different political campaigns and then, um, on the most recent not this current one, but on the most recent presidential campaign, uh, but also it's about the other half of it is about my decades long struggle with alcoholism and how I escaped that, and it's a story really that takes me from waking up in jail in Fairfax County, virginia, to flying on Air Force One in less than four years.

Speaker 1 6:29

And it's that story it's about how all of that unfolded.

Speaker 3 6:32

It's not a how-to manual about how to get sober, because no one can do that.

Speaker 2 6:36

Everybody has their own journey.

Speaker 3 6:37

Right, everybody has their own journey. But when I was in rehab and I went to rehab five times I spent a lot of time in the bookstores there and I grabbed. They had all the like the medical style textbook which tells you what the substances do to your body and all that, which is very important. But I gravitated towards the ones where it was people telling their own stories about all the crazy stuff that they got themselves into, all the problems they created for themselves, and some of it is just head shaking my gosh, do you get?

Speaker 2 7:03

out of this. Did that make you feel like you weren't alone?

Speaker 3 7:06

yeah, right. So I loved those books and that's why and I decided, if I ever write one, that's that's what I want to write and that's the book that I write, because those books helped me when I really need it. Right, it's just something and and not every story is the same, but you can pull little elements of it and say, yeah, something like that happened to me.

Speaker 2 7:21

How did this guy give you a jump start, right, yeah, jump start and it does make you feel like you're not alone.

Speaker 3 7:25

And so I decided, if I ever, wonder, wanted to write a book, I would write one of those, and so if anybody picks up this book, swing hard in case you hit it by me uh, tim mertzoff, available on amazon right now, or anybody else. Anywhere else you find books. If anybody picks it up and is struggling, and for 10 minutes while they're looking through it, they they don't pick up a drink or whatever it is.

Speaker 3 7:43

Their drug of choice is While they're doing it while they're flipping through the book, then it was worth writing, and I've had people already tell me that.

Speaker 2 7:50

So I think it was worth writing.

Speaker 3 7:51

Yeah, it's a win. It's a win. That's why I wrote it to help other people the way similar books helped me. In May of 2025, it'll be not what. Six days ago it was nine years so and you know, on may 16th 2015 was my last drink. So on may 16th 2025, don't want to get ahead of it and you know, jinx myself. We're sitting here. Yeah, a couple of baseball guys might be a little bit suspicious, as superstitious, superstitious uh, we got resilience and confidence.

Speaker 2 8:17

Yes, resilience and confidence like the dragons. So you?

Speaker 1 8:19

chose the year the dragon cigar jim so you know my.

Speaker 3 8:22

There's a couple things in there about my grandfather, but it's largely my story. There's a lot of politics in there, whether you do or don't. Like I might as well say the candidate I worked for was Donald Trump. I was communications director for his reelection campaign in 2020. And it was a very exciting job traveled the country with him, going to rallies and working with the press corps as the communications director. Lots of stories about having to go on tv and get beat up by folks on cnn and msnbc and other places.

Speaker 1 8:50

It was quite an adventure, not for the faint of heart sometimes, but um, it's all in there well, you gotta have thick skin boy, you're involved in that right a little bit, yeah, a little bit.

Speaker 2 8:59

Well, you know, hey, to a degree a pirate broadcaster has been beaten up over the years, so I have to know how you feel.

Speaker 1 9:08

Tim Murtaugh, our guest on. Hold my Cutter, tim, so I don't want to give it away, but how did you stop? I know that's in the book, but what made you stop?

From Arrest to Redemption

Speaker 3 9:19

Well, for me, what really did? It was complete and total and abject fear. I had to be faced with the, the prospect I was right on the edge of it of personal and professional ruin. I had gotten arrested you're fully functional well, I mean a lesson less functional over time prison to earth.

Speaker 3 9:35

I was working I still had a career. I had a pretty substantial career going in in political communications, working on campaigns and stuff, and I had had worked on Capitol Hill for a member of Congress from Pennsylvania, a guy by the name of Lou Barletta, who was a congressman from the Hazleton area, northeast PA. But I had gotten arrested a number of times. I had lost several jobs along the way and that day that I just described, when I woke up in jail in Virginia one morning, I had gotten arrested for public intoxication or public drunkenness, something like that. But the key was that I was on probation at the time for my second of two DUIs. I have two DUIs and I was on probation for my second one. I had already served 10 days in jail for that one but I had 80 days of jail time suspended. So I was hanging above my head for three years and if I ever got many more trouble alcohol related, that was going to violate the terms of my probation and I'd have to serve. So getting arrested for drunken public, that counts hopeful. So when I woke up and I realize all men have I done it. Now if I go to jail for what amounts to three months, I'm gonna.

Speaker 3 10:39

I was to have just recently been been married, I probably was going to blow that up. Uh, my friends and family were sick of my act, and I don't know what their reaction was. My family would have stayed with me. I'm sure they were a little bit tired of my antics. I was going to lose my job with Congressman Barletta, and then I was going to lose my career, which I had spent 20 years or so already in doing political communications, and so I realized that I had to stop drinking. And so I realized that I had to stop drinking. That, like, as I wake up in jail, I'm realizing I've already taken my last drink.

Speaker 3 11:07

Wow, you just knew it then I was that was kind of what Very similar to Beth Hallam's story. Yeah, very similar, I wasn't homeless but I was trending in that direction and I was going to lose everything, professionally and personally, if I didn't.

Speaker 1 11:19

And it just hit you.

Speaker 3 11:20

I just I mean it was pretty stark. You know I got 80 days. I'm going to jail If I don't get out of this mess. I'm going to jail for 80 days. I was already been in jail for 10 days for that one and five days for the first one, and so I kind of knew how the system worked a little bit and I knew I was in big trouble.

Speaker 3 11:37

So I got well, I got a lawyer and he gave me some great advice and I went and I got ignition interlock thing put back on my car voluntarily so that I couldn't start the car if I if I had any alcohol at all, you put up barriers. Yeah, I went to a zillion alcoholics anonymous meetings and got people to sign little slips that said I had been there. I did a hundred hours of volunteer service at an animal shelter and I went to an outpatient rehab center. I did all these things before I went to court and the prosecutor said, okay, look, I'll cut your break on, we won't prosecute this, but if I ever see you anywhere near this courthouse again, you're going to do those 80 days. And they, they did not prosecute the drunken public charge. I did not violate probation and I have never looked back. Uh, here I am. Here I am today, wow.

Speaker 1 12:17

Dumb question in health, is it tough yeah?

Speaker 3 12:21

I mean, at that point it was. You know it was kind of life or death the way I figured it, and you know my health wasn't great. I wasn't doing well, um, so it was. You know, there. There it was very difficult. Leading up to that point, I had spent many years going in and out of rehab, trying to quit various ways, and nothing worked. I kept getting in trouble, I kept getting fired from jobs, uh, but this is the one where it was staring me in the face. You know you will do this, or else there's no chance of ever coming back. Right, this was. This was the point at which I either did a complete 180 or it was probably would head off the cliff, and so, thankfully, I was able to turn it around. It's a lot of motivation. My wife Dina helped me tremendously. My family, my brother, steve Tim and Janet Murtaugh, my parents everybody was great. So I made it through. Somehow or another I found my way to working for the incumbent president of the United States.

Speaker 1 13:11

How did you go from being? How did that happen?

Speaker 2 13:15

Before we go there. How did this start? What the drinking yeah like? Is it just like just kind of casual, and then it just kind of. Well, at first, go ahead, finish your thought. Yeah, I always think about Beth and seeing this a couple different times, it's like how does it happen? Because I think a lot of people don't even know when it's getting to be too much.

Speaker 1 13:38

When does it spiral out of control?

Speaker 3 13:42

Well, it's different for everybody Exactly, and not everybody who drinks a lot or binge drinks turns into an alcoholic, and I think there's a lot of hereditary that's involved.

Speaker 3 13:54

You can inherit it biologically, I think, from ancestors, but also I think it's possible to develop it if you don't have it in your background. And for me it started in high school and I trace all this in the book. I drank heavily in high school on occasion, but I think I was an alcoholic from the very first drink, because I mean my. The first time I can remember getting super drunk, like blackout drunk, was in high school. So it started from there and it just gradually gets worse and worse and worse and over a period of time you know there were, I bet you I went entire months and months at a time without really fully being sober because at a certain point, if you do, it is physically addictive. Alcohol is really the worst addiction physically Withdrawal. Symptoms from alcohol can actually be fatal.

Speaker 2 14:34

I've seen it firsthand Withdrawal from other drugs. It is terrifyingly yeah.

Speaker 3 14:39

Withdrawal from other drugs. Even things like crack and cocaine are not necessarily fatal. They're, I imagine, really really really unpleasant. Yeah, but alcohol is actually the worst.

Speaker 3 14:49

I didn't know that, and so your body begins to need it, you know. And so first thing in the morning it starts to say you know what feed, feed the addiction, and then so then it becomes a sort of round the clock where you're maintaining it and that's no way to be, and then, and then it's not very it doesn't take much to knock that out of balance and then your entire life revolves around that absolutely revolves around knowing how to get a, to get a bottle, when to get it, where to hide it, all kinds of stuff, and I detail all that stuff.

Speaker 3 15:15

I've had so many people tell me that one they think that I hid it well, which is really not something to be proud of, and sometimes there are things like getting arrested.

Speaker 3 15:24

You can't hide that too well. But you know you just do all kinds of insane things to try to keep up the charade. I told people I had a low blood sugar problem because the symptoms are roughly the same as being drunk. So if I was at work and people thought I was acting funny, they'd go oh well, it's just low blood sugar. I even went so far as to buy sugar tablets to keep on my desk as a prop. Oh my God. So that people, oh they go. Well, there's the sugar tablets for low blood sugar. I didn't have low blood. Wow, I was drunk you know well.

Speaker 1 15:52

So but, but, but, you go, for you had been already in politics, had you not?

Speaker 3 15:57

yeah, you said that I was working for a member of congress, so so, but, but.

Speaker 1 16:00

But you get sober and somehow you go from that to working on the show.

Speaker 2 16:04

I lost the thread of this this is a weird joke, but like I didn't know if politics drove you to drink it yeah. Some say it's a tough industry.

Speaker 3 16:13

Yeah, many people are saying as the old joke that we say in Trump world many people are saying so I was working for. I worked for Barletta. He should have fired me so many times. God bless him for not doing it. He really never gave up on me Well he seemed like a go-getter.

Speaker 2 16:27

He was just a great guy. He really never gave up on me. Well, he seemed like a go-getter. If you were putting sugar tablets out, you probably hit it well, and you probably worked your tail off.

Speaker 3 16:35

I mean, you definitely swung hard. In case you, I was swinging hard, yeah. So I stayed so for about the second half of the four years I worked for him, I was sober and then he was a very early supporter of Donald Trump in 2015, 2016,. When Trump would come to Pennsylvania, barletta would be with him. So I got you know, in politics this is the way it works. I bumped into some people who I had worked with on previous campaigns who were then working for Donald Trump. A guy named Justin Clark was the political director for Trump on the 2016 campaign. I had worked with him on Linda McMahon's Senate race in Connecticut of the WWE oh, she ran for the Senate no kidding.

Speaker 1 17:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3 17:14

Ran for Senate in Connecticut twice. She spent like a hundred million dollars of of their own money on those two Senate races.

Speaker 2 17:19

Wow yeah.

Speaker 3 17:20

And lost both of them. But it's Connecticut right.

Speaker 1 17:22

She's a Republican, that's tall order, don't you guys? You could have told her that no chance you could have told her that.

Speaker 3 17:27

So I met this guy on Linda McMahon's campaign and then there he is on the Trump campaign. So two years into it, trump wins and I applied. I knew another guy named Nick Ayers who had worked for Sonny Perdue, the governor of Georgia, and Nick was a big mover and shaker in Republican circles and I texted him and said I sure would love, because the day before Trump's inauguration news broke that Sonny Perdue, the former governor of Georgia, was going to be the secretary of agriculture. And I didn't know anything about agriculture, but I knew Nick Ayers who had worked for Sonny Perdue when he was governor, and so I texted Nick and I said I'd love to work for Governor Perdue. And the next thing, you know, I'm the communications director for the secretary of agriculture. And then two years that from there, and then the same guy who I knew from connecticut called me and said have you, have you given any thought to working for the for the re-elect, which is the election campaign?

Speaker 2 18:14

and I said I sure have yeah yeah, and so there you have it.

Speaker 3 18:17

The next thing you know I'm communications director for the president of the united states on his re-election campaign. It all happened. It feels like it. You describe it now. It seems like it happened fast like. Warp speed. But it was over four years. So waking up in jail in May of 2015, in the early months of 2019,. I was on Air Force One flying with the president.

Speaker 2 18:39

So, less than four years later, what's your as a communications director? What all do you do? Wow, that's a big question.

Speaker 3 18:49

Yeah, it's. I mean, that's kind of like you know if you said press secretary.

Campaign Strategy and Baseball Memories

Speaker 3 18:54

That would be a little bit more explanatory and I think people can sort of imagine what a press secretary does. It's kind of like that, except you're in charge of and on the presidential campaign. I had a staff by the end of it. I had a staff of over 100. I had a staff by the end of it. I had a staff of over 100. So we had people who were positioned out in the states, in key battleground states, maybe a dozen or 15 states where we're considered battlegrounds. We'd have people actually on the ground there.

Speaker 3 19:19

But we had a war room where people do nothing but 24 hours a day, watch cable news and pull sound bites off of cable news that we can use and repurpose and send them out for press releases or on social media or whatever. So there's all kinds of aspects to it. A whole team of people who do nothing but pitch TV shows Fox, cnn, msnbc to book people on those talk shows, to get our point of view on those talk shows. A whole army of people who do nothing all day long but talk to reporters.

Speaker 3 19:48

And I oversaw all of that and it was my job to actually go out me among another not much among it was me and maybe three or four other people who actually were directly employed by the campaign, who would go out and do a lot of tv hits and things like that on on the campaign's behalf and, you know, promote the can't, the president and the candidacy and all that um. So it's a big job You're overseeing. It's everything that is communicated outward from the campaign, basically, except fundraising and paid television ads. But everything then deals with what we call earned media, which is stuff through the news media. That's what I oversaw.

Speaker 1 20:23

Obviously, there's probably no in our lifetime, no more polarizing figure maybe in lifetime, this generation than Donald Trump. It's fair to say.

Speaker 3 20:34

Yeah, it's fair to say. I've said this before recently. I think that it's still true. I think he's probably the most famous person on the planet. I would imagine I said that to somebody one time and said I don't know who's the most famous athlete in China. That person is the most famous person on the planet. And I said, yeah, I don't know who's the most famous athlete in China. That person is the most famous person on the planet. And I said, yeah, I don't know, but I bet you those people in China they've still heard of Donald Trump.

Speaker 2 20:55

That's a really good point Well how? Much baseball were you?

Speaker 1 20:57

able to because you're a huge baseball fan, right? Yeah, have you stayed in touch over the years with like the Pirates, for example? You've stayed a Pirates fan. I have. Yeah, I you stayed in touch over the years with like the Pirates, for example.

Speaker 3 21:10

You've stayed a Pirates fan all these years I have yeah, I've stayed a Pirates fan my whole life. You came in a polo, Well, I know that but, hey.

Speaker 1 21:18

He fired me up.

Speaker 3 21:19

He also had sugar tablets on his table. So I don't know. Well, that's true, that's true, that's true. Yeah, greg, you, this was already in my closet. This is a shirt. I've got a lot of Pirate Scare. My two little boys, who are ages not quite six and about seven and a half oh my gosh, they're 21 months apart. So they're five and seven right now, but the five-year-old would pester me every single day, wanting to know is he five and three-quarters yet?

Speaker 1 21:43

Uh-huh, so he's almost six, that's great.

Speaker 3 21:47

He's beyond five and three quarters.

Speaker 1 21:48

He's going to be out of the house tomorrow. Yeah, just about.

Speaker 3 21:50

He's very eager to grow up, but they're big Pirates fans. I have turned them into Pirates fans, and one of the last times we were here, your former colleague Robbie was kind enough to take us down into the indoor batting cage and my boys got to meet O'Neal Cruz, which was a gigantic thrill for them and a gigantic human. Yeah, he's a big dude, he's a big guy, and so they were thrilled about. I have a picture on my phone of the two of them and so, yeah, I've stayed a pirates fan my whole life. Um, what's your most?

Speaker 1 22:19

vivid memory tim, of, of, of, of your. Maybe you'd say you're not certain whether it was actually your memory, your moment with your grandfather, danny murtaugh, or stories that you've heard about, but is there one thing that stands out that's most vivid about him?

Speaker 3 22:34

yeah, I, I remember actually very clearly and I don't know if they do this anymore. You would know. Um, I think it was 1976 and my dad, or maybe 75. My dad was managing in charleston, west virginia, the charleston charlies triple a I think pirates triple a at the time and the Pirates came down. The big Pirates, the big club, came down and played an exhibition against the Charlies in Charleston, west Virginia. So I was a little boy, I would have been about six years old, and we went to the ballpark like I did every day. I went to the minor league ballpark, whatever city we were in, every single day of the summer. That was my summer vacation when I was a kid, going to Mireling Ballpark, and one day, when the Pirates were in town playing the Charlies, my dad and grandpa were managing the teams across the field from each other and I split time in the dugout.

Speaker 1 23:17

Now that is a crazy story.

Speaker 2 23:18

Yeah, back and forth. You had to go back and forth. You were like a tennis guy grabbing the tennis ball, running back.

Speaker 3 23:22

So I remember that, I remember that day quite clearly. Wow, do you?

Speaker 1 23:26

remember what year your dad started with the Charlie Charleston?

Speaker 3 23:29

I don't know, 74, maybe 74? Yeah, in that ballpark.

Speaker 1 23:33

Okay, we're going to have to ask.

Speaker 3 23:34

Steve.

Speaker 1 23:35

John Stagerwald, if you know him.

Speaker 3 23:36

Oh yeah, he's the radio guy.

Speaker 1 23:37

Oh yeah, I'll be darned. Well, that means he took over for Lanny, because Lanny was the radio guy at Charleston, maybe when Steve was going through his issues. It definitely wasn't Blast. Okay, then that was probably right after the 74 season.

Speaker 3 23:51

So I'm pretty sure that it was Charleston where Steigerwald was. We had been in, we were all over the place. Sure, shreveport, louisiana, so that, but that day.

Speaker 3 23:58

I remember very clearly in Charleston, grandpa bringing the big club down, and there was, you know, at that time there was still the Pirates. It was a great ball club in 1975. They didn't have Clemente anymore, of course, sadly. But Parker was a young Dave Parker was on that team and I saw a lot of these guys come up. My dad had Parker in the minor leagues for a little while.

Speaker 2 24:18

That had to be amazing, because I mean that's generational talent. Yeah, I mean Dave Parker. He's a big human too, right.

Speaker 3 24:25

He's a big dude.

Speaker 2 24:31

And speaking of guys who should be in the Hall of Fame, amen, and I think Al Oliver, too, should be in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 3 24:34

One more memory of just my Pirates fandom. I'm sorry to bring this up. The starkest memory I have as a Pirates fan is Sid.

Speaker 1 24:42

Bream sliding in crosshairs, game 7, 1992 in Atlanta. Gosh, that was so painful.

Speaker 3 24:48

I was so looking forward to going. I was going to obviously plan to come to the World Series, come to the games. It was at Three Rivers at the time and I had been to some of the games in the NLCS and watching that play. That whole inning was unbelievable, if you recall.

Speaker 1 25:02

One of the classic games, chico Leend made an error, and he never made an error.

Speaker 3 25:05

Stan Belinda was usually a lockdown closer.

Speaker 1 25:08

The home plate umpire didn't help him at all, I mean I still like to think he was out.

Speaker 3 25:13

Barry Bonds should be able to throw a guy out. Sid Bream had one bad wheel.

Speaker 1 25:17

Yeah, very slow.

Speaker 3 25:18

Couldn't throw him out from second base trying to score from second base and the whole thing no-transcript.

Speaker 2 25:33

I have a quote for you and you'll appreciate this because it's from Mike LaValle Whatever is going to happen is going to happen when it happens, regardless of what happens.

Speaker 3 25:41

There you go, there you go.

Speaker 2 25:42

That's about that 92.

Speaker 3 25:44

I couldn't have said it better.

Speaker 2 25:47

Swing hard in case of hit. I thought that was priceless. It is priceless.

Speaker 3 25:51

I know he was there, he was the catcher on that play.

Speaker 2 25:53

He's one of my favorites. Let me ask you.

Speaker 3 25:54

You're an old catcher.

Speaker 2 25:56

Yeah, and I've been through a play at the plate once or twice.

Speaker 3 25:58

Yeah, a few times. Put yourself in his shoes in that play. So you've got Bream on second base, clearly going to try to score. It's a single to left field. Bonds fields. It cleanly comes up throwing as the catcher. Throughout the course of that whole thing, what are you thinking?

Speaker 2 26:14

Well, back then I'm thinking about get the ball, get tight and make sure you hold on.

Speaker 1 26:19

There's going to be a collision, yeah, I think I'm going to get ran into. Since it's come from Bonds, I can see everything happening.

Speaker 2 26:28

Right it's all right in front of you. Yeah, so I have all the ability to understand and I have all the leverage. So I'm going to probably stand tall, deke him and be like uh-oh and come in as hard as I possibly could. I'll never forget. After the 19-inning play, joe. West came up to me he told me some things, and the one thing that I'll share today is who came up to you?

Speaker 1 26:47

Joe West, who is an umpire, yeah, umpire, but Joe was not there that day. No, no, no, but he was the king of everything, cowboy Joe West, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 26:58

Like Cowboy Joe West. He came up to me and said never leave a doubt. So the opposite of what we do today. I was like so, joe, you want me to kill the guy? He goes. Absolutely Do not leave a doubt, do not give us a reason to be right in an area, because we're going to take it.

Speaker 3 27:13

And I understand that.

Speaker 2 27:14

But at the same time, I'm a player. I don't want to destroy another player when he's six feet up the line. So you have to have that balance because right, wrong or indifferent.

Speaker 1 27:23

So the way now, just to be clear for those who aren't aware of these plays, we're talking about two very different plays, of course, absolutely Both do occur in Atlanta. Michael's the catcher in the 19-inning game. There's a ground ball to third. The throw beats Lugo, the base runner of the Braves, by a mile and Michael kind of goes a swipe tag as Lugo starts to slide, clearly gets him, clearly gets him on the arm and the knee. And Jerry Meals I shouldn't even bring up his name, it's not fair to Jerry, because we were all so angry.

Speaker 1 27:52

I know I feel bad. He's a local guy born in Butler.

Speaker 2 27:55

VA. Well, he was right for 19 innings.

Speaker 1 27:58

He missed one call.

Speaker 2 27:58

Did you catch all 19 innings? I did. He called him safe.

Speaker 3 28:03

I remember I was watching, watching it. I didn't have the ability that time to watch whatever the subscription service was. I was in virginia, not able to watch that game, and that was when you, the pirate you guys were good at that time we were just starting to get good.

Speaker 2 28:15

We literally maybe outside of 2012, I think is the actual worst. We had the worst fall off in probably the last 50 years. Well, I remember looking at the mlB 2012 September collapse was horrible 2011 was also bad. 11 was bad 11 was precipitous.

Speaker 1 28:31

It was gradual, but it was more in the middle of the summer when that happened.

Speaker 2 28:34

Yeah, in 12, it was like late August, september, yeah, september collapse Boom.

Speaker 3 28:38

Yeah, I remember that it was a huge drop-off. And then, you know, was it that game that sent everything spinning?

Speaker 2 28:44

I mean, it was a lot. We didn't have the depth. I mean Daniel McCutcheon's a great story in that saga because he threw five in the third innings on his day off. So on his day off they do not even want you to think about throwing in the game. So he had turfs on, he went upstairs on his own because he was pacing and we're like what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 29:03

He's like I want to pitch and we're like what's wrong with you? He's like I want to pitch, I can pitch, I'm good. So literally ran up and ran to the bullpen and started warming up. Nobody told him to, he just said I'm going to do this and then five and a third innings Should have been five and two thirds innings. He'll still be playing, but that's another story. That's the story. And I think when you think about all I mean, he never really made anything back to the big leagues after that, like he finished that year. Next year he's kind of fizzled out and never got back. And there was a bunch of guys like that and you kind of wonder can you look back and say were they like overexerted? You know, because we didn't have the depth that other teams had? That's a small market.

Speaker 2 29:39

And back then our bullpen was getting taxed. So that was a big, big problem, but we, reinforced, came back at it next year.

Speaker 3 29:47

I remember that play. I didn't have the ability to watch the game on TV, so I was trying to get the MLB app to refresh on my phone.

Speaker 1 29:54

And I remember Back then it was slow yesterday.

Speaker 3 29:56

Yeah, and I remember thinking what is taking so long? What's going on here? Because you can see who's on base and all that stuff. I'm like what has happened? This happened, did the thing crash or what? And then after a while it finally refreshed itself and I could see the score. I'm like what you know what happened?

Speaker 2 30:11

Yep, it was crazy.

Speaker 3 30:13

The Sid Bream play still sits.

Speaker 1 30:15

So the Sid Bream play. The contrast is again, that's game seven, 1992, nlcs and the base hit to left field. You mentioned Tim Bream at second Base hit to left field. You mentioned Tim Bream at second Base hit to left. Bonds' throw was off the mark. It was toward the first base side and LaValliere has to make the catch and dive toward home plate and didn't really have a chance we often wonder about. We kind of saw that play just the other day, yeah, but the throw came in from center field.

Speaker 1 30:41

That's right this year a 1-0 game.

Speaker 3 30:44

Do you know it's funny who I'm friendly with from politics and doing all the stuff that we were just talking about, going on TV and all that stuff. Most of the time when I have done TV and still do, most of it is Fox or Newsmax, something that's right of center. And I've become pretty friendly with one of the Fox anchors, a very, very nice woman named Shannon Breen.

Speaker 3 31:02

Oh, yeah, oh, she's a sweetheart, sid's, sister-in-law Sid's sister-in-law and so every time I talk to her or if I'm texting her, I'll say tell Sid, I said hi and that he was out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:13

Well, she'll come to PNC Park and wear a pirate jersey on occasion.

Speaker 2 31:16

I got to meet Sid last year and I really enjoyed meeting him. I mean, he's salt of the earth.

Speaker 3 31:20

Yeah, nice guy, a sweetheart, and it seems like the fans still have re-embraced Sid right, there's no reason you can't like that man.

Speaker 2 31:27

He's even got his nice mustache still, you know.

Speaker 1 31:30

He does seem like a nice guy. He's gone out and spoken. I've been at some of his speaking engagements and there's still a murmuring in the crowd when he's introduced.

Speaker 2 31:39

Oh, Sid Rehm, I don't know why.

Speaker 1 31:41

They don't take it personally against him, but he was representing the Atlanta Braves at the time. You being from a baseball family, tim, and we talk about this, fort and I on this Hold my Cutter podcast. How baseball is such a great sport. It's still the great American sport For over a century. It's been oftentimes a reflection on society in so many ways, back to that 1971 September 1st game where your grandfather writes the lineup. He's got Doc Ellis pitching, manny Sanguini is catching Al Oliver, rennie Stennett, jose Hernandez, dave Cash around the infield, willie Stargell, gene Clines, roberto Clemente in the outfield and it becomes to this day.

Speaker 2 32:26

It's a good lineup and that is the point Danny Murtaugh was asked about it.

Speaker 1 32:31

You just put together the first ever all-minority lineup, and his point was I didn't look to see what color they were. I put the best team out there, the best lineup.

Speaker 3 32:42

I think one of the guys I've talked to, a lot of those players, many of them, most of them, are no longer with us, sadly. Over the years I had a chance to talk to a lot of those guys whose names you just mentioned, and I think it was Dave Cash who said that you know Murtaugh just said well, all I knew is that they had pirates on the front of all their shirts.

Speaker 1 32:57

That's all I knew, and it was Doc's turn to pitch you know Steve Bl that recently, reminding me about Danny, we were talking about your grandfather and Steve also in the Pirates Hall of Fame, and he said that's what Danny would always say to the younger players that name in the front is way more important than the name on the back, and we've heard that quoted time and time again in the years since it's so true that it's the Pirates, it's not the personal name in the back, but I wonder if you've at all thought about that Baseball's. It's got so many different variables, tim in it, but it oftentimes is a reflection on life and being down. Your story, beth Hallam's story we've talked about before, about being down but not out, because though there is a clock, there's a pitch clock in baseball, there's still not, which there is in life too.

Speaker 2 33:46

You can still come back.

Speaker 1 33:47

Recently, the Pirates were down by four runs in the bottom of the ninth inning and came back and beat the San Francisco Giants for the first time in I think, yeah, something like 16 years. But so in that respect, there is no clock, and so you can be down by who knows how many runs and still come back. It's a great. Your story is a great comeback story, and that's what life is all about.

Speaker 3 34:10

It is, and I think I'm going to mention it again. It's called Swing Hard, in Case you Hit it by me, tim Merton, and it's available right now on Amazon or Target or Bookscom.

Speaker 2 34:19

I'm going to get us a copy All that stuff.

Speaker 3 34:21

Oh yeah, we're going to read that and so, anyway, I encourage people to pick it up and check it out. But I think you're exactly right and I think I'm reminded by there's this famous quote from Rogers Hornsby you know, not a pirate, but one of the all-time greats that I see every winter on social media and it's you know people, and it's something like this. I'm going to paraphrase People ask me what do I do all winter? And I tell them I stare out the window and I wait for baseball season or something like that.

Speaker 1 34:45

That's it. That's exactly it. Where's that effect?

Speaker 3 34:47

And so you know, spring is a season of the year where the plants come back and the animals resurface. It's a time of rebirth and rejuvenation, all that stuff. And that's when baseball season starts. You know, spring training, everybody's got a chance, everybody's undefeated. It's a very, very, very long season. So it's a very, very, very long season. So excellence, you think, will eventually rise to the top, kind of like life, and so all of baseball really, is one you want to speak to the team today.

Speaker 2 35:13

Yes, really, that's a great idea. One big metaphor it's in the clubhouse. You went from spring to excellence, but it is a metaphor of life.

Speaker 1 35:20

And going back to again what your grandfather did put that it wasn't about, and we've your grandfather did put that it wasn't about, and and we'll talk to steve and others of the that decade, the 70s, and I don't know if it's still true today probably not, because I think social media has a lot to do with it, but times have changed. Where you, they used to rip on each other and there was nothing sacred in that clubhouse yeah, that's right and you know and and relationships.

Speaker 3 35:44

you know this right, you're part of a team and you make it to the Pirates games coming to the field to take batting practice and stuff, because his dad was the manager of the Pirates. So, like I have a picture on my phone. I just saw it today as I was getting ready to come up here as my dad catching I don't know, he wouldn't normally do this during batting practice, but in the cage he was a catcher. My dad was a catcher.

Speaker 2 36:25

He caught batting practice. Yeah, my college coach made me do that. That is miserable. Well, with the Pirates though, oh, but yeah.

Speaker 3 36:31

I have a picture of my dad catching batting practice in the cage with Clemente taking his hacks For a fan.

Speaker 2 36:36

Amazing, my dad caught batting practice with.

Speaker 1 36:39

Clemente hitting yeah.

Speaker 3 36:42

That's, he would come to these reunion gatherings of the 1960 team and the 70 team and see guys like Bill Verdon and you know in the older days some of the guys from the 60 team and know all them because they knew him when he was in high school or college as a ball player and so all of that is still. You know, the relationships last for decades.

Speaker 2 37:01

Just to put some context to that is, we used to have to do that to build up our endurance.

Speaker 3 37:06

Oh, catch batting practice they, they it's.

Speaker 2 37:09

It's timed right, so it's 15 20 minute batting practice. You're in a squat, they're throwing, and if they foul a ball off it hits you.

Speaker 2 37:15

You can't catch it, or if it goes through, you think they're going to swing because you're just like yeah so that's why I was like it brings back some like haunting memories and if we we went down, we had to run, was that punishment? No, he was just old school and I respect it and I love it. I don't want to do it, but like I think that's how you learn things. But if it was a fan, I mean I would go right now and catch for the parts Sure BP, I think that's incredible.

Speaker 3 37:40

Every boy's dream, right. So this was. I don't know if he was in high school or college at the time, but he was quite. He was a good company. He went to the College of Holy Cross up in Worcester, massachusetts. Okay Was a catcher Was. I don't know if he would either say honorable mention, all-american or something somewhere he was very close to being an All-American and would have gotten drafted. Certainly would have gotten drafted, but the Pirates didn't want to. His dad was still the manager of the team so he signed with the Pirates to avoid getting drafted by another team, a different team. So he actually was not eligible his senior year of college because he'd already signed with the Pirates.

Speaker 1 38:15

People may not realize that your grandfather is also a really, really good Major League Baseball player.

Speaker 3 38:20

He was a solid player. Yeah, he played second base for nine years.

Speaker 1 38:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2 38:24

And he was a great player.

Speaker 3 38:25

Came up less long.

Speaker 2 38:28

You get past a year. You get into weird territories. Three, five, it gets further and further.

Speaker 1 38:33

I did not realize by the way, that he finished ninth in the MVP building in 1948, ahead of like Stan Musial and Jackie Robinson.

Speaker 3 38:40

Wow, Well, I mean Musial could hear footsteps, I think.

Speaker 1 38:43

Yeah, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 38:48

I'm kidding about that, the um. So he led the national this is a good one. In his rookie year he came up in 1941. So before the war, uh with the phillies. And he came up the season was already underway, so he didn't play a full season, but he got into the lineup right away and he ended up leading the national league in stolen bases that year 1941 guess how many you know?

Speaker 1 39:03

do you know? I do only because I looked it up.

Speaker 3 39:06

How many do you think it would take to lead the league in 1941?

Speaker 2 39:11

35.

Speaker 3 39:12

You're in the right direction. 18. Led the league in stolen bases with 18 steals.

Speaker 2 39:18

They didn't hit for power, they just manufactured.

Speaker 3 39:22

I think he had eight home runs, eight career runs.

Speaker 1 39:24

He might have only played in 85 games that year too, by the way.

Speaker 3 39:27

Yes, not a full season In.

Speaker 1 39:27

August of 1950, he's hitting .294. I didn't realize. And he's garnering MVP votes that year and he's hit in the head by the barber Sal Magli. Yes, Sal Magli Nicknamed the barber, because he would buzz hitters. What a great nickname.

Speaker 3 39:41

Time and time again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was a mean guy though yeah, always had a five really dark five o'clock shadow, pretty scary.

Speaker 1 39:48

Yes, uh, so it sounds like a zero and he lost two years. He did, he did.

Speaker 3 39:52

That's right. He lost two years for the war also, and he was in the infantry. When he came back his legs weren't as so nine year and and that's when he got hooked up with a fella named Joe Brown and they were best friends and Joe Brown and he teamed up together and you know, brown kept on bringing him back Every time he would retire he would bring him back.

Speaker 1 40:13

So a couple of times, danny, your grandfather would retire Three times, three times. So he was the original Billy Martin.

Speaker 3 40:19

Yeah Well, martin kept getting fired. Yeah Well, I know, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 40:28

But I'm just being coming back, not the firing part. I know we had a chat with your cousin, joe Walton, who has talked, as has other members of your family, other cousins, one cousin didn't she write a book? She also wrote a book. It's called the.

Tim Murtaugh's Fascinating Life Stories

Speaker 3 40:41

Whistling Irishman and it's all about my grandfather. It's a biography, really, about his childhood. He grew up quite poor. He used to walk up and down the train tracks near his house in Chester, Pennsylvania, looking for pieces of coal that had fallen off the train so that they could take it home and burn it for heat you know, for fuel. And he was gifted a baseball glove by an uncle that was more successful. They gave him a baseball glove, Uncle Tim, Unky, Unky. Timky and so indirectly, I'm named for that uncle because my father is named for that uncle and I'm named for my father.

Speaker 3 41:10

But uncle tim, or unky, gave my grandfather his first glove when he was a kid, and he because he couldn't have afforded one himself. Well, we got. He was quite a good athlete. He had to. He had a football scholarship to villanova that he had to turn down because he would have had to. Also, he would have had to have paid for his own room and board and couldn't afford that.

Speaker 1 41:28

I didn't realize that, danny. Yeah, danny, I did not realize that.

Speaker 3 41:30

So he had to turn down a football scholarship from Villanova, not baseball Football. He was quite a good athlete.

Speaker 1 41:36

I didn't realize that, and there was nobody better at the chaw.

Speaker 2 41:42

Spitting on sports writer's shoes.

Speaker 1 41:44

That's how they broke in their gloves back in the day, oh yeah yeah, but but I guess danny was notorious for that, a sports writer, and he'd spit on their shoes. He'd target right those, those shoe tops, bang. Do I have time to tell one absolutely real quick, danny.

Speaker 3 41:56

Danny has a scrappy second baseman story. So his double play partner, the shortstop with the pirates in the early 50s and they were. He was on some pretty bad pirates teams in in the early 50s Stan Rojek, do you remember that name? Yes, I do. So he and Rojek. There was a guy on in the first inning, there was a guy on first base and ball gets hit to. Let's see, ball gets hit to Murtaugh at second base and he flips it to Rojek at shortstop.

Speaker 3 42:20

Rojek turns the double play but the runner comes in with his spikes flashing and spikes Rojek really high in the thigh right and Rojek cuts his leg real bad and has to go into the go get his leg wrapped and get a new pair of pants on and stuff.

Speaker 3 42:34

So he goes out and as the innings go by they keep turning double plays, mertal and Rojek one way or the other shortstop or second baseman get the ball and as the game progresses they've turned a bunch of them. And somebody says to him on the bench after the eighth inning hey, you know, if you guys turn one more you'll tie the record for most double plays in a game by the same duo. How about that? So the ninth inning comes and, sure enough that same guy from the first inning gets on first base and this time the ball is hit to Rojek at shortstop and Rojek hangs on to it for maybe a heartbeat longer than he normally would to let the runner get closer to second base, flips it to Murtaugh. At second base, murtaugh turns and fires and hits the runner square in the face.

Speaker 3 43:12

No With the ball. So double play be damned. That guy was going to get payback for spiking Rojek in the first inning.

Speaker 1 43:19

So the record stands.

Speaker 3 43:20

The record stands.

Speaker 1 43:23

Back in the day. That's the way it was.

Speaker 2 43:24

I'm not going to lie, that's my type of baseball, I know.

Speaker 3 43:26

I know I'm wearing a face.

Speaker 2 43:27

Let them police themselves.

Speaker 3 43:29

Yep, and that's what. So that's and that's the story. I don't know how you would look that up and verify the truth of that story, although Blast doesn't like that.

Speaker 1 43:35

He said that's ruined a lot of good stories. The internet, oh, in the booth, and I'd be looking up something on the computer and say, well, that's not really how it happened he goes. Would you stop doing that, Ruining those good stories?

Speaker 2 43:48

I was there, so that's how it happened. That's right, that was a good one.

Speaker 3 43:52

In the 50s. He hit the. I don't know who the runner was.

Speaker 2 43:55

He may not know who the runner is.

Speaker 3 43:56

He maybe forgot all about it right at that moment what?

Speaker 3 43:58

happened. My other favorite one is right has hit the home run in 1960. Later on he was like a week or two later he was grandpa, was reading a story in the Philadelphia Inquirer about himself right, because he's a local from Chester, he's from that side of the state reading a story about you know, local boy manages the World Series winners. And he turned to my grandmother this is 1960, in the off season and he said Kate, how many really great managers do you think there are in baseball today? And grandma didn't even look. She was doing her knitting, she didn't even look at him.

Speaker 1 44:33

She said well, I think there's one less than you do.

Speaker 3 44:38

That's great she didn't even look up. No, she didn't even look at him.

Speaker 1 44:40

Like you know, sit down there. You're just Danny from Chester, that's great.

Speaker 3 44:44

You know, Calm down over there, buddy.

Speaker 1 44:46

Now, how did you know?

Speaker 3 44:48

Katie. Oh, very well, I think she lived until the year 2000. So I was 31, I think, when she passed. So I knew Grandma was fantastic, a great lady. She spent her last days in a nursing home near Greenville, pennsylvania. My Aunt Kathy is from north of Pittsburgh and people my Aunt Kathy used to call over to the nursing home every once in a while to ask her mother questions Like hey, what was the name of that girl I was friends with in fifth grade, do you remember? And the nurse would run and ask Grandma in her room they didn't have a phone in the room at the time Come back and say, oh, she says it was Laura. So they had the woman who was a stroke victim in the nursing home and the nurse would say honestly, we don't get very many people calling to ask our residents questions like that, oh, my God Wow.

Speaker 3 45:39

So grandma was that All of us. If any one of us can rub a noun and a verb together, it's because of grandma. She was the smart one. Wow, Just finishing up verb together.

Speaker 1 45:46

It's because of Grandma. She was the smart one. Just finishing up. Again, it's a swing heart in case you hit it. Now you've found your own consulting firm. Right, you're doing that.

Speaker 3 45:56

It's a baseball motif anyway for the name of it. It's called Line Drive Public Affairs. There we go, love it. I host my own podcast. Am I allowed to mention?

Speaker 1 46:05

that, yeah, of course.

Speaker 3 46:05

Oh my gosh, not exactly the same subject matter and it's about politics and it's called the Line Drive Podcast. I do it with a couple of friends of mine from the Trump years Sonny Joy Nelson and Hogan Gidley and we have a good time. We had Roberto Clemente Jr on a few weeks back, and so we do some things that are not politics Talking about his dad, of course, and the quest to get a national holiday. That's his dream. Now we have Roberto Clemente Day nationally. We have one in Pennsylvania already, but nationally. So I do that and I'm a communications consultant for either candidates for office or private sector firms. I do a lot of that Line drive public affairs.

Speaker 1 46:41

What a story.

Speaker 3 46:42

Right, I mean my gosh. I don't want to stop.

Speaker 1 46:45

It's so great, tim thanks I don't know.

Speaker 3 46:47

I'd switch places with you guys in two seconds.

Speaker 1 46:49

Either one of you I would and I'd trade places with you in two seconds too uh, since 15, maybe, maybe we can just flip flop something.

Speaker 2 46:56

That's right, right tim thanks a million sure, and and really thanks, thanks for the recommendation I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 47:02

It's an honor to meet you it's an honor to meet you fan favorite, really really cool the 2024 year of the dragon, as suggested by Tim Murtaugh. Join us next time for Hold my Cutter.